Some New Zealand teeth, please help!

[Notidanodon]

Hi guys, I have come to you for help as I really don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to New Zealand shark teeth (I’m fairly sure these are all selachian), anyway, I have separated them into what I think are the separate species based on my understanding of tooth morphology, sorry for lack of scale, for reference the teeth vary from around 2mm-5mm

 

here is species 1

 

 

side view of the most complete one

 

 

There appear to be very faint serrations more prevalent in one of them

[Notidanodon]

This is the 2nd species, maybe a descendant of the goblin shark? Thanks again, these almost all Miss roots

they could just be a different tooth position though

 

 

[Notidanodon]

Finally n.3

these are smaller than the previous ones and have different shaped blades

 

thanks for your help

[Top Trilo]

My guess would be some sort of sharks 

Cool teeth, looking forward to what they are.

[gigantoraptor]

How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure.

[Notidanodon]

11 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure.

My thoughts were Greenland shark myself but I had the same issue as you, I am 100% certain, I got them in a trade with @mamlambo

maybe @Al Dentecould help

[gigantoraptor]

3 minutes ago, will stevenson said:

My thoughts were Greenland shark myself but I had the same issue as you, I am 100% certain, I got them in a trade with @mamlambo

maybe @Al Dentecould help

Check the genera of the Somniosidae family. Some (like Centroscymnus) seem to live/ have lived around New Zealand.

[Notidanodon]

Just now, gigantoraptor said:

Check the genera of the Somniosidae family. Some (like Centroscymnus) seem to live/ have lived around New Zealand.

Ok great thanks

[Al Dente]

Centrophorus has been found in the Paleocene of New Zealand. 
 

 

[Notidanodon]

5 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Centrophorus has been found in the Paleocene of New Zealand. 

 

thanks I will read up on that paper, it seems a good match, maybe it will contain some of the other species I have

[hemipristis]

On 11/25/2020 at 6:11 AM, gigantoraptor said:

How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure.

I was wondering the same, and thought "nah, that' can't be"

Interesting!!

[siteseer]

14 hours ago, will stevenson said:

thanks I will read up on that paper, it seems a good match, maybe it will contain some of the other species I have

 

Hi Will,

 

I agree with Al Dente that the more complete tooth is Centrophorus and the isolated crowns might belong to one or two other squaliform sharks.  I'm wondering if the more erect crown could belong to Oxynotus which would suggest a Miocene-Pleistocene age.  Centrophorus has been reported from all across the Cenozoic of New Zealand.

 

Did you get a locality or any idea of age from your friend?

 

Jess

[Notidanodon]

1 hour ago, siteseer said:

 

Hi Will,

 

I agree with Al Dente that the more complete tooth is Centrophorus and the isolated crowns might belong to one or two other squaliform sharks.  I'm wondering if the more erect crown could belong to Oxynotus which would suggest a Miocene-Pleistocene age.  Centrophorus has been reported from all across the Cenozoic of New Zealand.

 

Did you get a locality or any idea of age from your friend?

 

Jess

Yes it’s the Miocene Greta formation, sorry I put it in the tags but forgot to put it in the main text

[siteseer]

On 11/24/2020 at 12:11 PM, gigantoraptor said:

How certain are you these are from New Zealand? The complete one in the first picture looks like Somniosus (Greenland shark) which as far as I know never lived there, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

Somniosus pacificus lives today off the eastern New Zealand coast and the margins of the Pacific Ocean (Japan, Bering Sea, Mexico) and it is known from the Oligocene of Washington.  The root looks more like Centrophorus.

[siteseer]

On 11/24/2020 at 11:50 AM, will stevenson said:

Finally n.3

these are smaller than the previous ones and have different shaped blades

thanks for your help

 

This tooth is similar to an upper anterior of modern Euprotomicrus though the root of your tooth is more robust.  I don't think I've seen a fossil tooth like this.

 

Jess

[Notidanodon]

8 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

This tooth is similar to an upper anterior of modern Euprotomicrus though the root of your tooth is more robust.  I don't think I've seen a fossil tooth like this.

 

Jess

It’s a very weird one! Thanks for your help

[Notidanodon]

New thought, what if the supposed centrophorus was deania  @siteseer

[siteseer]

You'd have to read more to make that determination.

[hemipristis]

That near-complete Centrophorus is a prize!

[Notidanodon]

On 11/02/2021 at 8:19 PM, siteseer said:

You'd have to read more to make that determination.

I thought seeing as the crown was non serrated it was pretty straight forward? Is that distinction correct, thanks for your help

 

On 12/02/2021 at 2:04 AM, hemipristis said:

That near-complete Centrophorus is a prize!

thanks

[Notidanodon]

Just thought I’d come back to the topic again as I was having another look at these, for the complete tooth, with the medial cutting edge unserrated, wouldn’t that make this a deania? @siteseer or am I missing some more subtle differences

[siteseer]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:44 AM, will stevenson said:

Just thought I’d come back to the topic again as I was having another look at these, for the complete tooth, with the medial cutting edge unserrated, wouldn’t that make this a deania? @siteseer or am I missing some more subtle differences

 

I should have added that I'd have to read more to make that determination.  You have to be careful with serrations.  Sometimes, they make a difference; sometimes they don't.  I saw a Parotodus that had weak serrations.

 

I have a couple of publications buried in boxes.  I will try to see what they say this weekend.

 

Jess

[Notidanodon]

19 minutes ago, siteseer said:

 

I should have added that I'd have to read more to make that determination.  You have to be careful with serrations.  Sometimes, they make a difference; sometimes they don't.  I saw a Parotodus that had weak serrations.

 

I have a couple of publications buried in boxes.  I will try to see what they say this weekend.

 

Jess

Yeah, serrations can be tricky, thanks for looking into it  

[Notidanodon]

@siteseer did you find anything interesting?  I was looking at the protrusion of the blade onto the root and that seemed to match deania better as well

[siteseer]

On 5/10/2021 at 11:23 PM, will stevenson said:

@siteseer did you find anything interesting?  I was looking at the protrusion of the blade onto the root and that seemed to match deania better as well

 

Hi Will,

 

I'm sorry for the delay.  I keep looking at that tooth.  Is it chipped toward the tip on the mesial edge?  Yes, the rule is a tooth like that with an unserrated mesial edge and a narrower cusp would be Deania especially if characters of the root cannot be examined as is usually the case.  From what I've read, Centrophorus can be weakly serrated or unserrated but Cappetta (2012) is unclear because he says "straight" though I think he means "smooth."  Deania tends to be smaller, flatter, and with a narrower root.  I can see going with Deania for that tooth though it might still be Centrophorius.  

 

Jess