From Land to Sea

[EscarpmentMary]

Today I would like to share with you a fossil I have which I am shy to show because I have shown it to palaeontologist at the Royal Ontario Museum, (ROM) and they said no it isn’t because it doesn’t fit into the correct time period for this area.

I was disappointed but relieved at the same time because now I can keep it 

 

I am grateful to them because they gave me their time and experience, but I keep it on my shelf and this is what I think, as the Silurian sea slipped a way land did begin to happen. Fungi and eventually vascular plants. I found this fossil of a Psilophyton, which I have included and this is difficult for me to present on a scientific forum but on the bottom left I think it is an insect, possibly a Diptera Empididae, and have included a diagram. I have placed straight pins to point out my examples. If you continue looking there are more examples Psilophyton. I have studied this fossil for years now.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I don't think the Empididae are known before the Cretaceous.

And the Diptera appeared during the Triassic. 

[Fossildude19]

Not seeing any wing veins. 

The time period is problematic.

The ROM know their stuff. 

 

[Kane]

Agreed.

Much of the material that would contain specimens including vascular plant material, and even land scorpions (very rare), occurs in the Lagerstatte of the Eramosa, of which there are no viable outcrops in your regional vicinity outside of the working quarries (only the overlying Guelph Fm). 

[EscarpmentMary]

Ok my research showed Diptera Empididae came from the Devonian period, that’s really all I went on, from the book Evolution Mark Ridley. I didn’t read the whole book though, thanks all. Really quick response. Wasn’t expecting that, thanks again. Stay tuned I have more lol!

[Oxytropidoceras]

49 minutes ago, Kane said:

Much of the material that would contain specimens including vascular plant material, and even land scorpions (very rare), occurs in the Lagerstatte of the Eramosa,...

 

Some papers, with online PDF files, about the Silurian Eramosa Lagerstätte, Ontario, Canada, are:

 

von Bitter, P.H., Purnell, M.A., Tetreault, D.K. and Stott, 

C.A., 2007. Eramosa Lagerstatte—Exceptionally preserved 

soft-bodied biotas with shallow-marine shelly and bioturbating 

organisms (Silurian, Ontario, Canada). Geology, 35(10), pp.879-882.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/253269085_Eramosa_Lagerstatte---Exceptionally_preserved_soft-bodied_biotas_with_shallow-marine_shelly_and_bioturbating_organisms_Silurian_Ontario_Canada

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Denis_Tetreault

 

Eriksson, M.E. and von Bitter, P.H., 2015. Jaw-bearing 

polychaetes of the Silurian Eramosa Lagerstätte, Ontario, 

Canada. Journal of Paleontology, 89(2), pp.222-235.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.911.5650&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

LoDuca, S.T. and Tetreault, D.K., 2017. Ontogeny and 

reproductive functional morphology of the macroalga 

Wiartonella nodifera n. gen. n. sp.(Dasycladales, Chlorophyta)

 from the Silurian Eramosa Lagerstätte of Ontario, Canada. 

Journal of Paleontology, 91(1), pp.1-11.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311503502_Ontogeny_and_reproductive_functional_morphology_of_the_macroalga_Wiartonella_nodifera_n_gen_n_Sp_Dasycladales_Chlorophyta_from_the_Silurian_Eramosa_Lagerstatte_of_Ontario_Canada

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Denis_Tetreault

 

Yours,

 

Paul H.

[Kane]

Just now, Oxytropidoceras said:

 

Some papers, with online PDF files, about the Silurian Eramosa Lagerstätte, Ontario, Canada, are:

 

 

Yours,

 

Paul H.

Yup. We relied heavily on Tetreault, and particularly his dissertation.

[EscarpmentMary]

Thankyou so much! I promise you, I will read every word!

[FossilNerd]

Very interesting rock Mary! Thanks for sharing it with us. I have to agree with the others about it not being a fossil for their mentioned reasons. 
 

4 hours ago, EscarpmentMary said:

 

Today I would like to share with you a fossil I have which I am shy to show

 

My opinion is to never be shy to show something. There are no stupid questions and you will never know if you don’t ask. I know we agree with the ROM on this particular specimen, but a second opinion never hurts! 
 

What is important is to keep an open mind and realize that sometimes the correct answer may not be the one we want to hear. Which I believe that you do.
 

You may not have a fossil, but it’s a specimen worthy of the cool rock shelf.  

[EscarpmentMary]

Thanks! I’m happy I posted it now, spent the evening curled up on the couch reading the papers Kane sent to me, laptop with the papers, smart phone on Google search lol! It’s nice to read about areas I know so well! 

[EscarpmentMary]

Thanks Paul

[EscarpmentMary]

Yesterday I showed you the front of a fossil I have, and received very encouraging comments. Today I woke up thinking maybe this rock didn’t come from around here at all, maybe it was dropped here by a retreating glacier  I wanted to do this in two parts because I would like to show you side “b” it really seems different again to me because the “mud” seems to indicate by its wrinkled format, perhaps,  micro biome behaviour. Also again I have placed straight pins to point out what could be fungus.  I was studying it one day and picked up a razor knife and gently pried off a “spore pod.”  I then laid it along my ruler to measure and photograph.  It wasn’t until I looked at the photograph I was thrilled to see what appeared to be a stem, about 5mm long running up to the spore pod. So I took the pod and dropped it into a warm little, chemical pond. The water was filtered and I added soluble plant fertilizer. When I peeked into the glass it appeared to give me a happy smile.  It brought to mind The Cremation of Sam McGee by Robert Service. It’s funny how this work seems to bring poetry to mind, another great poem which often goes through my head is The Chambered Nautilus by Oliver Wendell Holmes. Look it up it’s beautiful!  I think I must be a romantic at heart. Anyway I must be a romantic because I had to give it a new home, a place more akin to it’s original environment. I placed it on a fossil rock with organic moist soil, in a jar shaped like a tree. In case you are wondering, no I really don’t want it to grow. Have you ever watched or read MARY Shelly’s Frankenstein! Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends! Take care of yourselves.

 

[EscarpmentMary]

"In fact, animals are true pikers compared to plants such as rice, soy, corn, and cassava, all of which have twice as many genes." Neil Shubin from the book Some Assembly Required

[Fossildude19]

I am not really seeing any kind of spore or seed.

 

 

 

 

The pictures are not the clearest, but I can't see what you are seeing.

[EscarpmentMary]

Sorry I forget, I have been staring at this rock for a long time, see if this helps, but if it’s not clear then clear it out, It’s more the concept, first terrestrial plant life.

 

 

[JohnJ]

@EscarpmentMary

 

I have merged your new topic about the opposite side of the same specimen in the beginning of this topic.  It is important to retain context in discussions about the same piece; thus reducing confusion or duplication in responding.  

 

Is it possible you have sharper images of "side b"?  

 

[EscarpmentMary]

[EscarpmentMary]

[EscarpmentMary]

I uploaded these at different sizes, see what works best, my tech skills are getting better but still needs work 

[Fossildude19]

The smaller ones are not helpful, unfortunately. 

These are better: 

 

 

[EscarpmentMary]

[EscarpmentMary]

Thanks to JohnJ and Fossildude for all your wonderful help!

[Mahnmut]

Hello Mary,

I think I understand what you mean by giving the fossil a good place without intention to reanimate it.

I myself never throw any bone, shell, feather or fossil I do not need any more into the garbage, it just does not feel right. I always bring them back into nature.

 

Concerning the diptera in question, I see a lot of lines on that rock that look fossil right enough. the part that looks a bit like wings though appears to me to be just the same kind of lines, whatever they are, only happening to be arranged in a wing like pattern. There is no structure that is different from the rest of the lines as far as I can see in the pictures.

 

The backside looks fossiliferous to me also, but not insectlike either (you did not claim it to), about fossil fungi I do not know enough to guess.

I think we are looking at different sections through the same thing here, although it is of course possible that different organisms (most probably from the same age) got preserved in the same rock.

best Regards,

J

[EscarpmentMary]

[EscarpmentMary]

Yes in the end it’s a curious rock, worthy of keeping, sharing and enjoying