Juvenile Trex tooth?

[DatFossilBoy]

Hey guys,

I saw this Tyrannosaurid tooth from the Lance creek formation, USA.

I was wondering if it was a juvenile T. rex tooth.

It’s 0,5 inches long.

Thanks for the imput

[jpc]

Looks good to me, but in order to keep everyone honest, it is called the Lance Formation, not the Lance Creek.  Many folks don't know this, including folks who sell this stuff.  

[Troodon]

Agee with jpc but do you have a locality where this was found to confirm Lance Fm

[DatFossilBoy]

21 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Agee with jpc but do you have a locality where this was found to confirm Lance Fm

But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken

[Top Trilo]

Just now, DatFossilBoy said:

But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken

A lot of the time county is crucial

[Top Trilo]

1 minute ago, DatFossilBoy said:

But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken

and just because they say lance creek doesn't mean Wyoming, sellers sometimes don't know which formation is for which area

[DatFossilBoy]

1 minute ago, Top Trilo said:

A lot of the time county is crucial

Isn’t it Niobrara County?

[Troodon]

41 minutes ago, DatFossilBoy said:

But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken

Yes but the seller needs to tell you where it was found not just a formation 

[Troodon]

Why I ask never assume, check this out.  You always need a complete provenance that includes locality

 

 

 

 

[-Andy-]

2 hours ago, DatFossilBoy said:

But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken

 

Lance Formation may also be in Montana though this seems to be the exception than the norm

[jpc]

My thoughts on this whole Lance discussion.  The Lance Fm is only found in Wyoming.  It basically changes names at the state lines, becomes Hell Creek in Montana. I have heard some folks say that the HC comes into Wyoming, but I have never seen any science papers or maps with this in it.  There are considerable outcrops of Lance in Niobrara County, but it also occurs in a bunch of other counties in this state.  One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance.  This is where troodon's point is valid.  If the seller comes back and says it came from a county that does not exist in Wyoming... red flag. 

 

But it is good to have some info on the locality, at least county for USA fossils.   

[DatFossilBoy]

6 hours ago, jpc said:

One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance. 

I know it comes from a trustworthy seller so I have no doubt on Lance formation.

So T.rex is the right determination correct?

Thanks for all of the info everyone 

[TyBoy]

  I dont understand why you would not want to known what specific area your tooth was found considering how many discrepancies are posted even with trustworthy sellers.  However Its your prerogative to decide how much investigation you do on what you purchase, if you are satisfied fine..  Not my recommendation to those reading this.  Verify everything, we see enough examples of red flags and knowing specific localities of finds helps when you decide to flip your specimen 

[-Andy-]

15 hours ago, DatFossilBoy said:

Hey guys,

I saw this Tyrannosaurid tooth from the Lance creek formation, USA.

I was wondering if it was a juvenile T. rex tooth.

It’s 0,5 inches long.

Thanks for the imput

 

Assuming it's indeed Lance Fm, then this looks like a T. rex to me

 

12 hours ago, jpc said:

My thoughts on this whole Lance discussion.  The Lance Fm is only found in Wyoming.  It basically changes names at the state lines, becomes Hell Creek in Montana. I have heard some folks say that the HC comes into Wyoming, but I have never seen any science papers or maps with this in it.  There are considerable outcrops of Lance in Niobrara County, but it also occurs in a bunch of other counties in this state.  One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance.  This is where troodon's point is valid.  If the seller comes back and says it came from a county that does not exist in Wyoming... red flag. 

 

But it is good to have some info on the locality, at least county for USA fossils.   

 

Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures:

 

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=49005

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=55326

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=91359

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=142753

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=150931

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=179991

[Troodon]

21 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures:

 

Unfortunately I think most of that information is out of date and @jpc said it correctly its the state line of Montana & WY.

On the other comment I made:

I believe everyone should know specifically (town or county) where their specimens come from and helps verify the provenance provided and aids in future transactions.

[Troodon]

Here is another way to look at it Maastrichtian/Danian age by major Dino states

 

 

Revised geochronology, correlation, and dinosaur stratigraphic ranges of the Santonian-Maastrichtian (Late Cretaceous) formations of the Western Interior of North America
Denver Warwick Fowler. 2018

[jpc]

2 hours ago, -Andy- said:

 

Assuming it's indeed Lance Fm, then this looks like a T. rex to me

 

 

Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures:

 

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=49005

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=55326

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=91359

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=142753

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=150931

http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=179991

Thanks for pointing these out, Andy.  I think, as troodon mentioned, these data are outdated.  Although, I will admit, I never realized that the original T rex type specimen was said to come form the Lance Fm of eastern MT.  Again, note the date is 1902.  Makes me wonder when the HC Fm was named.  I bet that info is in Denver Fowler's recent paper (quoted by troodon). 

 

On the other hand, the second one you listed is an abstract from an SVP meeting in 2005... not at all outdated.  I looked through my JVP collection, and I am missing that one.  (Or it is misplaced?)  But I am intrigued.  I know one of the authors, so I will ask him.  

[Troodon]

7 minutes ago, jpc said:

Makes me wonder when the HC Fm was named. 

1907 B Brown

 

hell creek formation.pdf

 

"The Hell Creek Formation is exposed in Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Equivalent and contiguous strata in Wyoming are known as the Lance Formation and in Canada as the Frenchman and Scollard Formations"

 

 

[jpc]

I just talked to R Moses (co-author of the second link above posted by Andy). 

 

He and his colleagues are calling it Lance in the MT portion of the Bighorn Basin (which is mostly in Wyoming, but dips in to southern Montana, and is contiguous, yet disconnected from the mass of Hell Creek in most of MT.   So, yes there is Lance in southern MT.