DatFossilBoy Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hey guys, I saw this Tyrannosaurid tooth from the Lance creek formation, USA. I was wondering if it was a juvenile T. rex tooth. It’s 0,5 inches long. Thanks for the imput 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Looks good to me, but in order to keep everyone honest, it is called the Lance Formation, not the Lance Creek. Many folks don't know this, including folks who sell this stuff. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Agee with jpc but do you have a locality where this was found to confirm Lance Fm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatFossilBoy Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Troodon said: Agee with jpc but do you have a locality where this was found to confirm Lance Fm But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, DatFossilBoy said: But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken A lot of the time county is crucial 1 “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 minute ago, DatFossilBoy said: But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken and just because they say lance creek doesn't mean Wyoming, sellers sometimes don't know which formation is for which area 1 “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatFossilBoy Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Top Trilo said: A lot of the time county is crucial Isn’t it Niobrara County? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, DatFossilBoy said: But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken Yes but the seller needs to tell you where it was found not just a formation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Why I ask never assume, check this out. You always need a complete provenance that includes locality 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, DatFossilBoy said: But I thought Lance formation was only in Wyoming? Maybe I’m mistaken Lance Formation may also be in Montana though this seems to be the exception than the norm 1 Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 My thoughts on this whole Lance discussion. The Lance Fm is only found in Wyoming. It basically changes names at the state lines, becomes Hell Creek in Montana. I have heard some folks say that the HC comes into Wyoming, but I have never seen any science papers or maps with this in it. There are considerable outcrops of Lance in Niobrara County, but it also occurs in a bunch of other counties in this state. One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance. This is where troodon's point is valid. If the seller comes back and says it came from a county that does not exist in Wyoming... red flag. But it is good to have some info on the locality, at least county for USA fossils. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatFossilBoy Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 hours ago, jpc said: One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance. I know it comes from a trustworthy seller so I have no doubt on Lance formation. So T.rex is the right determination correct? Thanks for all of the info everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I dont understand why you would not want to known what specific area your tooth was found considering how many discrepancies are posted even with trustworthy sellers. However Its your prerogative to decide how much investigation you do on what you purchase, if you are satisfied fine.. Not my recommendation to those reading this. Verify everything, we see enough examples of red flags and knowing specific localities of finds helps when you decide to flip your specimen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 15 hours ago, DatFossilBoy said: Hey guys, I saw this Tyrannosaurid tooth from the Lance creek formation, USA. I was wondering if it was a juvenile T. rex tooth. It’s 0,5 inches long. Thanks for the imput Assuming it's indeed Lance Fm, then this looks like a T. rex to me 12 hours ago, jpc said: My thoughts on this whole Lance discussion. The Lance Fm is only found in Wyoming. It basically changes names at the state lines, becomes Hell Creek in Montana. I have heard some folks say that the HC comes into Wyoming, but I have never seen any science papers or maps with this in it. There are considerable outcrops of Lance in Niobrara County, but it also occurs in a bunch of other counties in this state. One does not need to know what county it came from to determine what the fossil is if one can say it came from the Lance, assuming it does indeed come form the Lance. This is where troodon's point is valid. If the seller comes back and says it came from a county that does not exist in Wyoming... red flag. But it is good to have some info on the locality, at least county for USA fossils. Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures: http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=49005 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=55326 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=91359 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=142753 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=150931 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=179991 Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, -Andy- said: Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures: Unfortunately I think most of that information is out of date and @jpc said it correctly its the state line of Montana & WY. On the other comment I made: I believe everyone should know specifically (town or county) where their specimens come from and helps verify the provenance provided and aids in future transactions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Here is another way to look at it Maastrichtian/Danian age by major Dino states Revised geochronology, correlation, and dinosaur stratigraphic ranges of the Santonian-Maastrichtian (Late Cretaceous) formations of the Western Interior of North America Denver Warwick Fowler. 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, -Andy- said: Assuming it's indeed Lance Fm, then this looks like a T. rex to me Wouldn't it depend on which part of Montana the fossil comes from? Here are a few localities in Montana that have Lance Formation exposures: http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=49005 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=55326 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=91359 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=142753 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=150931 http://fossilworks.org/?a=collectionSearch&collection_no=179991 Thanks for pointing these out, Andy. I think, as troodon mentioned, these data are outdated. Although, I will admit, I never realized that the original T rex type specimen was said to come form the Lance Fm of eastern MT. Again, note the date is 1902. Makes me wonder when the HC Fm was named. I bet that info is in Denver Fowler's recent paper (quoted by troodon). On the other hand, the second one you listed is an abstract from an SVP meeting in 2005... not at all outdated. I looked through my JVP collection, and I am missing that one. (Or it is misplaced?) But I am intrigued. I know one of the authors, so I will ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, jpc said: Makes me wonder when the HC Fm was named. 1907 B Brown hell creek formation.pdf "The Hell Creek Formation is exposed in Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Equivalent and contiguous strata in Wyoming are known as the Lance Formation and in Canada as the Frenchman and Scollard Formations" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I just talked to R Moses (co-author of the second link above posted by Andy). He and his colleagues are calling it Lance in the MT portion of the Bighorn Basin (which is mostly in Wyoming, but dips in to southern Montana, and is contiguous, yet disconnected from the mass of Hell Creek in most of MT. So, yes there is Lance in southern MT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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