New Here! ID Fossil Vertebra approx. 8cm

[DandelionWish]

Hello! I'm new to the forum and while I have been interested in fossils since I was young I didn't really start collecting more seriously until recent years so I'm still a complete novice.

I received this vertebrae in a trade so I'm not sure where it's from but it's approximately 8cm at the widest point. I took some of the images with the measuring tape in the picture but it only shows inches.

I posted these on facebook and someone was kind enough to help me identify another piece but nobody has had said anything about this one yet. Any assistance is appreciated! Thank you so much!

 

Ok...I have a bunch of good images and I can't seem to upload them because they're apparently too large, lol. Hopefully, I can get this to work. Fingers crossed! Let me know if you can't see them, I'm completely new to the forum.  

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by DandelionWish

[Fossildude19]

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Where was this found?

[DandelionWish]

Just now, Fossildude19 said:

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Where was this found?

 

Thanks! I acquired it in a trade so I'm unsure of where it was found. Sorry!

[Thomas.Dodson]

Welcome to the forum.

 

The pictures are good and you included scale which is good. The problem is specimens are very difficult or impossible to ID without locality information save some common and easily recognizable species. Some bone has features unique to certain groups but some are similar across the board and if you can't narrow it down from age and locality then it becomes impossible. I wouldn't even begin to speculate on this beyond what you already know.

[DandelionWish]

3 minutes ago, Thomas.Dodson said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

The pictures are good and you included scale which is good. The problem is specimens are very difficult or impossible to ID without locality information save some common and easily recognizable species. Some bone has features unique to certain groups but some are similar across the board and if you can't narrow it down from age and locality then it becomes impossible. I wouldn't even begin to speculate on this beyond what you already know.

 

Well, that's still helpful even if it's not what I want to hear, lol! Thank you! Since I'm a complete novice, based on size, I'm assuming it must be from something pretty large? So when you say some groups all look the same, is there a group I could assume this is from? I'm sorry if that's a silly question. I'm just itching to know something about it, reptile, fish, mammoth? I don't even have an inkling, lol. 

[Fossildude19]

Cropped and brightened:

 

    

 

 

       

 

 

  

[DandelionWish]

 

Thank you! 

Edited December 18, 2020 by DandelionWish

[Fossildude19]

I don't think you can hazard a guess without knowing where it came from. 

Personally, I don't think this looks like bone - but I am more of a fish and invertebrate guy: Bones are NOT my strong point. 

 

Knowing where it is from allows us to figure out the age of the sediments in the area, and then narrow down to what was around at that time. 

 

If  it is actually a vertebra, then it could be from a dolphin or similar sized creature. But I will leave further ID to the bone guys. 

 

@Boesse  @Harry Pristis

 

[DandelionWish]

2 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

I don't think you can hazard a guess without knowing where it came from. 

Personally, I don't think this looks like bone - but I am more of a fish and invertebrate guy: Bones are NOT my strong point. 

 

Knowing where it is from allows us to figure out the age of the sediments in the area, and then narrow down to what was around at that time. 

 

If  it is actually a vertebra, then it could be from a dolphin or similar sized creature. But I will leave further ID to the bone guys. 

 

@Boesse  @Harry Pristis

 

 

I'm tempted to slice it in half with my wet saw...would that be a bad idea? I'm assuming it has zero value with no further information being available on it. Maybe slicing it will reveal more? 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Welcome to the forum. If there's any place you're likely to get a result on your question, it's here!

 

That said, it's a tricky one, for the reasons others have already explained. However, there are some notable features that can already be mentioned:

- the bone is a vertebra and is platycoelous (both sides are flat)

- the bone looks rather dense, and may be pachyostic, indicative of marine species

- the vertebra looks to have two holes on the bottom, which could be nutritive foramina to provide the bone with extra blood

 

Based on these characteristics, I wouldn't mind wagering on plesiosaur.

[Kane]

I would say no. Vertebrate identification is usually external features, context, etc., so cutting it would not likely present any new information if species are not determined by internal bone structures. I could be wrong, but I'd wait on going the saw route until the vert experts weigh in. 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

12 minutes ago, DandelionWish said:

 

I'm tempted to slice it in half with my wet saw...would that be a bad idea? I'm assuming it has zero value with no further information being available on it. Maybe slicing it will reveal more? 

The value is certainly determined without locality data, but that doesn't mean the piece cannot be appreciated in its own right. But I doubt it's a piece with high scientific value, and thus it's greatest value, in this case, is what you find aesthetically pleasing. That could be cut and polished... Ultimately, that depends on you as custodian.

 

Cutting out in half, though, might not be as easy as you think. On the other hand, it can, indeed, reveal information not available otherwise. Bone vascularisation and density can be an informative clue to identity...

 

P.s.: in order to circumvent the size limit per post, you can either host images on a different site and link them here (a link to an image inserted in a post will automatically show the image by default), or - and this is the preferred way in order to ensure the images will always remain available - resize send compress them. There are multiple programs available that can help you do this on all platforms (e.g. Lit Photo on Android or Irfan View on Windows, to name a few).

[DandelionWish]

9 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Welcome to the forum. If there's any place you're likely to get a result on your question, it's here!

 

That said, it's a tricky one, for the reasons others have already explained. However, there are some notable features that can already be mentioned:

- the bone is a vertebra and is platycoelous (both sides are flat)

- the bone looks rather dense, and may be pachyostic, indicative of marine species

- the vertebra looks to have two holes on the bottom, which could be nutritive foramina to provide the bone with extra blood

 

Based on these characteristics, I wouldn't mind wagering on plesiosaur.

 

 Thank you so much! That's extremely informative and is really cool if it is a plesiosaur vertebra! 

[Fossildude19]

The Forum definitely does NOT recommend using a 3rd party hosting site. 

The links always go dead, as some point, negating the value of a post.   

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

9 minutes ago, Kane said:

I would say no. Vertebrate identification is usually external features, context, etc., so cutting it would not likely present any new information if species are not determined by internal bone structures. I could be wrong, but I'd wait on going the saw route until the vert experts weigh in. 

There is indeed minimal information to be gleaned from cutting a vertebra open, but it can be informative nonetheless. Yet, the point made here is correct: I wouldn't cut it open hoping it will help ID it. 

[jpc]

I saw the same thing pachy-pl did... 

- the bone is a vertebra and is platycoelous (both sides are flat)

- the bone looks rather dense, and may be pachyostic, indicative of marine species

- the vertebra looks to have two holes on the bottom, which could be nutritive foramina to provide the bone with extra blood

 

And I also think it may be a plesiosaur.  I think an honest ID would be "?plesiosaur"

[DandelionWish]

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me everyone! A maybe/probably/likely ID is enough to make this girl happy and I've learned so much just in the one post! I look forward to spending more time on the forum and learning more! Thank you again! 

[Boesse]

I'm firmly in the "could be?" camp - though it is quite waterworn and the texture is not quite as "bony" (e.g. clearly preserving bone pores) as I would like.