RescueMJ Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I found this partial vertebrae today that is sliced almost in half. Inland Venice, FL. It was located 100 feet from where I recovered an Early Pleistocene Equus tooth this week. This vert is 61mm high and 60mm at widest diameter. The ends are very flat and smooth. There are two circular areas where there are breaks. Assistance in ID is welcomed. I’m not sure how to proceed. Images are taken at 1x. Regards -Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas.Dodson Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Cetacean vertebrae. The airy structure is a strong indicator. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 A mammal vertebrae would be flat on top and bottom this appears rounded on one surface. Poss croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 2.1.2021 at 3:06 PM, val horn said: A mammal vertebrae would be flat on top and bottom this appears rounded on one surface. Poss croc I beg to differ here, though it is true that croc vertebrae are procoelous, having a convex caudal end and a concave cranial one, the slight curvature you see here is still in the range of cetacean acoelous vertebrae. Best Regards, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescueMJ Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Thanks for the input. I placed a level on each end of the vertebrae. See attached photos. I collected a great specimen of a Baleen whale caudal vertebrae this summer as well. That is my only other comparison. That vertebrae had a very different surface on the ends that was not smooth like this one. Thanks again all for your assistance. I do see where two of the processes would have broken off. I guess there would be at least one more on the missing half. -Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, val horn said: A mammal vertebrae would be flat on top and bottom this appears rounded on one surface. Poss croc 3 hours ago, Mahnmut said: I beg to differ here, though it is true that croc vertebrae are procoelous, having a convex caudal end and a concave cranial one, the slight curvature you see here is still in the range of cetacean acoelous vertebrae. Best Regards, J I agree, a crocodile vertebra would be procoelous, with a clearly recognizable concave cranial and concave caudal end to the vertebral centrum. Though these can be weathered, it's rare for them to be weathered away to such an extent (on both sides, moreover) so as to make the vertebra appear platycoelous. Though marine crocodiles did have platycoelous vertebrae, their range is restricted to the Early Jurassic through Early Cretaceous, so not pertinent here. I too think it more likely that this would be a cetacean vertebra, as the platycoelous condition and dense bone structure (i.e., pachyostic bone) would point towards a marine animal as the source for the vertebra. 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Ok. Not as curved as I thought. The original pictures 4 and5 seemed to show a significant curvature. The most recent two photos clearly show flat surfaces. Not a croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescueMJ Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 Thanks for the info. My baleen whale vert had the cookie on one end. I inaccurately assumed only sea creatures had that. thank you all again. -Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas.Dodson Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, RescueMJ said: Thanks for the info. My baleen whale vert had the cookie on one end. I inaccurately assumed only sea creatures had that. thank you all again. -Michael. The epiphysis in juveniles aren't fused and often fall off when they die. As the animal ages it fuses to the bone as it appears like in your specimen here. If the epiphysis is detached the vertebral surface will look more like the isolated "cookies" with the structure. The attached picture is a cetacean vertebrae that is missing the epiphysis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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