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animal impression/footprint?


FossilNovice34

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Greetings- I found this rock with kids in Montgomery County, Pa., USA, along creekbed. I believe it's a type of sandstone- the Brunswick and Lockatong formations run through county (apologies-I'm just learning geology, it's red-brown). Curious if this is an animal impression? Footprints are known to be found in the area. Photographed at different angle lights, as it looks so different depending.  My son showed at school as a fossil- wanted to give him an informed answer. Thanks so much!



 

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Sorry, but I’m not seeing foootprints in these, I’m not the most knowledgeable in that field, but it looks like the wrong type of rock, and they look more like natural breaks. :unsure:

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Hmm, I don't know. Maybe @Fossildude19 would know.

"Its webs of living gauze no more unfurl;

Wrecked is the ship of pearl!

And every chambered cell,

Where its dim dreaming life was wont to dwell" :ammonite01:

-From The Chambered Nautilus by Oliver Wendell Holmes

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I agree there are other impressions on the rock that appear to be random so chances are it would be geologic in origin.

“If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit)

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It's conceivable that this is a track. The rough outline is close. Unfortunately I have to agree that there is not enough clear evidence for the ID to stand on its own.

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@FossilNovice34

 

This actually does look like a track to me.  

The stone is a very water worn cobble, but it could be a track. 

The area is late Triassic, so, ... Apatopus sp. , Rhynchosauroides sp. Batrachopus sp., and Brachychirotherium sp. are all possibilities. 

I would put it at about a 85% chance this is a track or partial track.

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    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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If Tim believes its a track I believe him but when I searched images of the possible genera most of them have two parts to the track but I only see one in the specimen shown. 

Here's a image to show what I mean

Trackways of Apatopus lineatus . A , Reconstruction of the holotype... |  Download Scientific Diagram

“If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit)

"No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard)

"With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane)

"We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues)

"I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus)

“The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger)

"it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19)

"Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad)

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Sorry, but I feel someone should advocate for the dark side.

These shapes, the yellow highlighted one especially, tend to resemble the proposed claw imprints enough to warrant caution. If you can light the very tip of the claws to better show the precise shape it may be helpful.

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Funny, although this is definitely not the most convincing footprint - and I'm certainly no expert on them - the first thing that came to my mind was that this could be the footprint of some early amphibian. May be not entirely a match for the species Tim mentioned, but Triassic would be, for what I had in mind (Permian or Triassic). The matrix, though river-worn, is certainly fine-grained enough for it. I also vote yay for footprint. Compare to:

 

preserve8.jpg.855dd71d912abc67ce773e8aef8fbf43.jpgUnidentified Triassic reptile foot cast, taken from Vitkus, Chin and Lockley: "How tracks are preserved"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5fdd5078b3ac0_Chirotheriumcf.barthii01.thumb.jpg.6b172bbdbf19b8af57bce86765e5f9fb.jpg5ff8cd5187b2a_Rhynochsauroidessp.footcats.thumb.jpg.d2923a3777befcbe821e6747d9bcf91e.jpgDicynodontia plus sp. (left) and Rhynochsauroides sp. (right) trackways foot cast, Upper Buntsandstein, Lower Triassic, at the Museum Institut für Geowissenschaften, Heidelberg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5ff8cba2530bf_Chirotheriumcf.barthiifootcast.thumb.jpg.331434ba8c4dddc79da80b98215df27d.jpgChirotherium cf. barthii foot cast, also Upper Buntsandstein, Lower Triassic, at the Museum Institut für Geowissenschaften, Heidelberg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Based on the above material, I'd say the greatest similarities would appear to lie with Chirotherium. Also, the foot cats of that species presented in the image above is not accompanied by a hand print, which seems to support the absence of one in OPs specimen.

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'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett

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How it looks from the opposite side?

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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Keep in mind, this may be an underprint, and not a complete print itself. 

 

There are numerous reasons why there could be no other print beneath it. 

 

8-Figure4-1.png

 

Image from HERE.

 

 

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    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

underprint

Lay a yoga mat on a fresh bed of mortar and walk across it. The tracks in the mortar is an underprint ?

I have a track from Granby, MA that re-split to expose such a second shadow like track. It wouldn't photograph well, but it is larger with shallower angles of depression at the perimeter. I can see this being the same concept.

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23 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Lay a yoga mat on a fresh bed of mortar and walk across it. The tracks in the mortar is an underprint ?

I have a track from Granby, MA that re-split to expose such a second shadow like track. It wouldn't photograph well, but it is larger with shallower angles of depression at the perimeter. I can see this being the same concept.

I've posted these before somewhere, but can't seem to find it back, so will post these again here. They should pretty much explain the concept of underprints/-tracks:

 

trkvar1.thumb.jpg.549dec9fdfb77738ca3aceb1a99c53f0.jpgpreserve5.jpg.ceed671814ac3faed59bf5ba7573a7da.jpg

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'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett

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I added a photo of back of rock as per abyssunder. Tried to highlight the tips best I could as per Rockwood, I can't get any closer with my camera. Thanks all for taking the time to share your opinions, fboth ascinating and informative! We have some further reading to do. And we'll be back out there searching, it's so fun.  

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What could be an argument on the pro-list is that the material seems to be bulging a bit around the impression.

Best Regards,

J

Try to learn something about everything and everything about something

Thomas Henry Huxley

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17 hours ago, FossilNovice34 said:

Tried to highlight the tips best I could as per Rockwood,

Almost missed this, but now I'm glad I didn't. 

These shapes look very indicative of claw penetration to me.

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