BoneValleyTooth

[Shellseeker]

I am on an amazing win streak.

Last Friday,  I found a very unusual Barnacle fossilized in Silica. Next time out , today!!!!

I have been hunting Bone Valley for 13 years and I have never found or seen this tooth.  I do not know what it is..... and I broke it digging it out.  The root was already broken some many MYAs,  but it still does not feel good breaking a once in a lifetime find.  My good fortune continued because the broken segment was also in the sieve..

My only thought is that it might be marine mammal.  Asking @Boesse and @Harry Pristis to take a look...

 

[Boesse]

Could be sperm whale, but the texture on the end is strange for a cetacean and reminds me of unworn enamel of desmostylians and proboscideans. Could this be a juvenile tusk tip of a gomphothere?

[Shellseeker]

22 minutes ago, Boesse said:

Could be sperm whale, but the texture on the end is strange for a cetacean and reminds me of unworn enamel of desmostylians and proboscideans. Could this be a juvenile tusk tip of a gomphothere?

Yes !!! I have sent email to Richard Hulbert. I wondered in it was sirenian tusk. I have found a Rynchothereium tusk at this location.

[Harry Pristis]

Could be dugongid -- I've not found one.

 

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said:

Could be dugongid -- I've not found one.

Following up on Harry's suggestion..

@siteseer found this in a Polk county mine in the 1980s !!!

Quote

This is what a fossil dugong tusk looks like.  This one was collected in the 80's or maybe the 70's from a phosphate mine in Polk County, Florida.  it's about 2 1/2 inches long with that small enamel crown being the part that stuck out.

 

Jess

[Shellseeker]

14 hours ago, Boesse said:

Could be sperm whale, but the texture on the end is strange for a cetacean and reminds me of unworn enamel of desmostylians and proboscideans. Could this be a juvenile tusk tip of a gomphothere?

 

You have support.  and I was rushing down the path of Sirenian unerupted tusk.  There are no more experts (that I know) to ask.

Quote

I have not seen anything exactly like this, but the closest were unerupted juvenile tusks, either rhino or proboscidean.

Richard Hulbert,

Director of Vertebrate Paleontology
Florida Museum of Natural History

 

 

[digit]

Sounds like that one will remain in the mystery pile for a bit longer.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:14 PM, digit said:

Sounds like that one will remain in the mystery pile for a bit longer. Cheers.

-Ken

Maybe not.

I talk to one of my hunting friends today, while hunting.  He worked for a Bone Valley Phosphate Mines for 30 years. He was absolutely clear.  and his 1st thought was tusk, not tooth and proboscidean.

As I re_read Bobby's post, he believe that " juvenile tusk tip of a gomphothere" is a good possibility  and Richard think that the most likely ID would be " closest were unerupted juvenile tusks, either rhino or proboscidean"

 

The location has produced Rhino and Gomphothere teeth, which are not diagnostic to the species level and a Rynchotherium tusk.  No Mammoth and some small bits that could be either Mastodon or Gomphothere. The other fauna found are consistent with Gomphothere.

 

I have 3 experts who have said simila things.  I need to believe them. Also,  I need to find out lots more about which species have unerupted tusks. 

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/montbrook/blog/spring-2018-season-summary/

[siteseer]

Hi Jack,

 

I wish I could say I found that but I got it from a guy who got it from a guy.  It was collected in those days not long after the Pleistocene - the 1970's or early 80's.

 

Jess

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, siteseer said:

Hi Jack,

 

I wish I could say I found that but I got it from a guy who got it from a guy.  It was collected in those days not long after the Pleistocene - the 1970's or early 80's.

 

Jess

Jess,

I have been staring at your tooth,  mostly because I wanted to match mine to "Dugong Tusk".  But now, I am likely wrong, but think it may not be dugong. 

Please see this thread.  I wonder what @Boesse thinks of your tooth. 

 

[Harry Pristis]

With all due deference to Hulbert, the tusk enamel has the wrong texture to be elephantoid and the wrong shape to be rhino.  That leaves only dugongid.

 

[Shellseeker]

5 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

With all due deference to Hulbert, the tusk enamel has the wrong texture to be elephantoid and the wrong shape to be rhino.  That leaves only dugongid.

 

 

Thanks Harry,  for responding to this old thread.  I really love the quality and breadth of your "comparison" collections. I will save a private copy,  just in case I find some similar items. I can always hope.

 

I did not get the feeling that Bobby or Richard were very positive on their ids, more like suggestions. Without a comparison that is clearly similar, it is hard to be positive on this one.  Given that, I appreciate your expertise on Florida fossils tusks,  especially related to the enamel texture.

As you say,  that leaves only dugongid.  I'll search in that direction. Eventually, someone (hopefully one of us) will find a matching fossil.

[Harry Pristis]

50 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Thanks Harry,  for responding to this old thread.  I really love the quality and breadth of your "comparison" collections. . . . 

 

You're welcome, Jack, but I'll have to make a better image of those rhino lowers.  I didn't realize how out-of-focus it was.