Beetle in Dominican Amber

[DinoFossilsUK]

Hi, just looking for a little help identifying this beetle in Dominican amber.  Any ideas?  Thanks in advance!

 

[DinoFossilsUK]

[ziggycardon]

I am no expert on Dominican amber inclusions but I do know a thing or two about living beetles. Although I am not a 100 % sure this specimen resembles an awfull lot to the members of Prioninae subfamily (Long hornbeetles) of which modern species live on the Caribbean islands.

[DinoFossilsUK]

On 29/01/2021 at 4:28 PM, ziggycardon said:

I am no expert on Dominican amber inclusions but I do know a thing or two about living beetles. Although I am not a 100 % sure this specimen resembles an awfull lot to the members of Prioninae subfamily (Long hornbeetles) of which modern species live on the Caribbean islands.

Awesome, thanks Ken!

[RuMert]

Looks more like Lucanidae, notably Dorcus parallelipipedus

[ziggycardon]

2 hours ago, RuMert said:

Looks more like Lucanidae, notably Dorcus parallelipipedus

A female Lucanidae would have been my second suspicion but there is something about the head morphology that makes me lean more towards Prioninae and the way the eyes are shaped in the 2nd picture is more consistent with those of Long Horned beetles which are larger than those of Stag Beetles.
In the second picture the eyes are visible from the ventral view which as seen in this image should be consistent with the placement of the large oval shaped eyes of Long Horned Beetles. You can also see that the eyes have very large facetts. 
While Stag Beetles usually have smaller eye that would be hard to see from a ventral view, also the facetts are less pronounced than with the Long Horns. 


 

@DinoFossilsUK do you think it is possible to make some pictures that show the eyes from the sides, that probably would settle the debate.?

Should it be a stag beetle it wouldn't be Dorcus parallelipipedus whose distribution is restricted to Europe, the only described stag beetle species that I know of from Domican amber is "Syndesus ambericus". Could always be a new species which would be exciting though  

[DinoFossilsUK]

Well I'm way out of my depth and know nothing about beetles, but I agree the eyes look bigger than those in the second photo.  But then the wings seem closer to those of the stag beetle.

 

This was the best picture I could get of the eyes sorry.  The piece is rounded near the head and it's really difficult to get a shot of the side of the head.  But the eyes seem to fall somewhere between the two pictures you posted.  I thought it was worth asking for help on the forum as I haven't come across this kind of beetle in Dominican amber before (at least not that I recall).

[ziggycardon]

It's a real though one this as I can see characteristics of both but it are mainly the eyes that keep me leaning more toward Long Horned beetles than Stags but the body shape does resemble a female stag beetle as well (especially the genus Lucanus).  
Another thing I just noticed that I initially didn't think about, but most female stag beetles do have spines on their legs which I something I don't think any long horned beetle has. 
I have a hard time seeing it on the pictures but I don't think I can see any big spines on the legs. 

[DinoFossilsUK]

No I can't see any evidence of spines on the legs.  Thank you for all your help.  Given how awkward it is to photograph I think I'll settle for it being an indeterminate beetle, maybe a long horned beetle

[Joe_17]

Late to post but this looks an awful like something in the family Cerambycidae to me.

[Quis]

I literally made an account to come suggest an ID, it’s almost certainly a species of patent leather beetle, related to stags. From the family Passalidae. Not all species have pronounced ridges on their tibiae, and clearly the amber didn’t capture all the features, but see if that lines up. VERY few fossils exist of them. Like, single digits according to google. And only two or so species known from the fossil record

Edited July 31, 2022 by Quis