Seaspawn Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Found these a few months apart on a beach in Suffolk of the UK. I am pretty confident, after a little research, that the first bone here is a partial clavicle, although I have much less confidence about what. I read that they only exist in animals with prehensile forelimbs, so it could be some kind of ape? No marsupial presence in the Doggerland that I've been able to find. And, probably not early human, right? (I'm sorry if that's a silly question. It always crosses my mind.) The second, while extremely worn, I think it may be an antler fragment because it has numerous exposed areas that look like cancellous bone, which I read is present in the core of antlers, while the areas right next to these exposed sections are intact. And the lowest part looks smooth and I could imagine it fitting against a deer skull of some kind. But it's my imagination that gets me into trouble with IDs, sometimes. As always, thanks to everyone who offers their advice, opinions, and general patience with my wild guessing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkdoctor Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Interesting finds! This post gave me a much needed flash of curiousity and random reading. So thanks for that ! I would look to ribs first. The direction of the articular surfaces doesn't feel right for a clavicle. However, (the random reading part), it does seem that there are some large animals with clavicles. Cats and bears. Cats are out, because the articular surfaces are largely reduced. That left me wondering if giant sloths have them. The only clearly imaged Megatherium clavicle I found was definitely very different: Image from: Chichkoyan, K. V., Martinez Navarro, B., Moigne, A. M., Cioppi, E., Belinchón, M., & Lanata, J. L. (2017). Description and interpretation of a Megatherium Americanum atlas with evidence of human intervention. While it has a passing resemblance to a human clavicle, the articular surfaces are not similar at all: Image from: https://www.amazon.com/Clavicle-Bone-Model-Anatomically-Accurate/dp/B07DQS3MTY In summary, I'm convinced the first image is a rib, but I can't find a close enough match at the moment to provide you proof. Very convinced it is not a clavicle of the animals discussed above. Good luck in your search for an ID and thanks for making my lunch break intriguing! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 The second bone reminds me of a crocodilian ilium. 6 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaspawn Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Fascinating, Sharkdoctor. You've ruled out a lot of things and I can follow your reasoning as well, so thank you! A rib probably makes it harder to narrow down, but do you think you could tell if it's something terrestrial or aquatic? Thank you again either way! Harry, that's amazing! Thank you! Google offered: found in "Oxfordshire County, England, Southern United Kingdom." That's fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 The first bone is a well worn mammal ulna. The orange is where the radius sits, running parallel. The light blue is where the end of the humerus articulates and makes the elbow joint. The end of the radius is also involved in the elbow joint. The green is the elbow, or funny bone. Harry... I am impressed you saw a croc ilium in that piece. Good work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaspawn Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Thank you, JPC! That's very informative as a diagram. I will put it down as a small(?) mammal ulna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacTheFossilMan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: The second bone reminds me of a crocodilian ilium. Very impressive, I wasn't thinking anywhere near that, I think I need to brush up on my crocodilian knowledge... I'm sure I'll be scorned by many Palaeontologists for not knowing much about them! ~ Isaac; www.isaactfm.com "Don't move! He can't see us if we don't move!" - Alan Grant Come to the spring that is The Fossil Forum, where the stream of warmth and knowledge never runs dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Ulna was also my impression, concerning the size I would call it medium size terrestrial, like deer or pig, although the species is hard to tell depending on how eroded the funny bone is. The cross section on the broken end may tell someone more. I don know about the second one. Although early hominid or hominin finds are of course not impossible, they are incredibly rare. It has been said (in some documentary I saw) that all the hominid bones we ever found all over the world (excluding the species Homo itself) could fit easily into the trunk of a normal car. And here is a fun if incomprehensive read about who has clavicles: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2450151 Best Regards, J 2 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaspawn Posted February 6, 2021 Author Share Posted February 6, 2021 16 hours ago, Mahnmut said: Although early hominid or hominin finds are of course not impossible, they are incredibly rare. It has been said (in some documentary I saw) that all the hominid bones we ever found all over the world (excluding the species Homo itself) could fit easily into the trunk of a normal car. Thank you for this. I had no idea. And thank you for the link, as well! You're very kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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