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What Kind of Clavicle, And Poss. Antler Fragment?


Seaspawn

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Found these a few months apart on a beach in Suffolk of the UK. I am pretty confident, after a little research, that the first bone here is a partial clavicle, although I have much less confidence about what. I read that they only exist in animals with prehensile forelimbs, so it could be some kind of ape? No marsupial presence in the Doggerland that I've been able to find. And, probably not early human, right? (I'm sorry if that's a silly question. It always crosses my mind.)

IMG_2973.JPG.a409dbbd64b81b036adc25a559cd2e8e.JPG

IMG_2972.JPG.544b5e8fca398873e1d26d07cd1a9b2b.JPG

 

The second, while extremely worn, I think it may be an antler fragment because it has numerous exposed areas that look like cancellous bone, which I read is present in the core of antlers, while the areas right next to these exposed sections are intact. And the lowest part looks smooth and I could imagine it fitting against a deer skull of some kind. But it's my imagination that gets me into trouble with IDs, sometimes.

IMG_2977.JPG.fbcc3a41d983dfe26b93ea26c8815f67.JPGIMG_2976.JPG.700a6460cc305cf5d4224a5d7ee5ccfe.JPGIMG_2979.thumb.JPG.53202ab3ae853ae90d02734e357e21de.JPGIMG_2980.thumb.JPG.a2a95bc1ff0410b0ba210983d2641e76.JPG

 

As always, thanks to everyone who offers their advice, opinions, and general patience with my wild guessing!

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Interesting finds! This post gave me a much needed flash of curiousity and random reading. So thanks for that :)!

 

I would look to ribs first. The direction of the articular surfaces doesn't feel right for a clavicle.

 

However, (the random reading part), it does seem that there are some large animals with clavicles. Cats and bears. Cats are out, because the articular surfaces are largely reduced. That left me wondering if giant sloths have them. The only clearly imaged Megatherium clavicle I found was definitely very different:

Right-Megatherium-americanum-clavicle-IGF-14824-Bony-regrowth-can-be-seen-in-the_W640.jpg

Image from: Chichkoyan, K. V., Martinez Navarro, B., Moigne, A. M., Cioppi, E., Belinchón, M., & Lanata, J. L. (2017). Description and interpretation of a Megatherium Americanum atlas with evidence of human intervention.

 

While it has a passing resemblance to a human clavicle, the articular surfaces are not similar at all:

61VgkNUWpJL._SL1500_.jpg

Image from: https://www.amazon.com/Clavicle-Bone-Model-Anatomically-Accurate/dp/B07DQS3MTY

 

In summary, I'm convinced the first image is a rib, but I can't find a close enough match at the moment to provide you proof. Very convinced it is not a clavicle of the animals discussed above.

 

Good luck in your search for an ID and thanks for making my lunch break intriguing!

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Harry Pristis

The second bone reminds me of a crocodilian ilium.

 

gatorilium.jpg.10627c9351f8b27e165cc468b2abf460.jpggatoriliumC.JPG.5cfd05b142789cb2ae7170e14f08c03e.JPG

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Fascinating, Sharkdoctor. You've ruled out a lot of things and I can follow your reasoning as well, so thank you! A rib probably makes it harder to narrow down, but do you think you could tell if it's something terrestrial or aquatic? Thank you again either way! :)

 

 

Harry, that's amazing! Thank you! Google offered:

ilium.png.35dad7af55cd3e247a116dbe688c45d5.png

found in "Oxfordshire County, England, Southern United Kingdom."

 

That's fantastic.

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The first bone is a well worn mammal ulna.  

 

The orange is where the radius sits, running parallel. The light blue is where the end of the humerus articulates and makes the elbow joint.  The end of the radius is also involved in the elbow joint.  The green is the elbow, or funny bone.  

 

ulna.jpg.78b5aef23f2c5e3878d45e7c3afab1b8.jpg

 

 

Harry... I am impressed you saw a croc ilium in that piece.  Good work.

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IsaacTheFossilMan
3 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

The second bone reminds me of a crocodilian ilium.

 

gatorilium.jpg.10627c9351f8b27e165cc468b2abf460.jpggatoriliumC.JPG.5cfd05b142789cb2ae7170e14f08c03e.JPG

Very impressive, I wasn't thinking anywhere near that, I think I need to brush up on my crocodilian knowledge... I'm sure I'll be scorned by many Palaeontologists for not knowing much about them!

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Ulna was also my impression, concerning the size  I would call it medium size terrestrial, like deer or pig, although the species is hard to tell depending on how eroded the funny bone is. The cross section on the broken end may tell someone more.

I don know about the second one.

Although early hominid or hominin finds are of course not impossible, they are incredibly rare. It has been said (in some documentary I saw) that all the hominid bones we ever found  all over the world (excluding the species  Homo itself) could fit easily into the trunk of a  normal car.

And here is a fun if incomprehensive read about who has clavicles:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2450151

 

 

Best Regards,

J

 

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16 hours ago, Mahnmut said:

Although early hominid or hominin finds are of course not impossible, they are incredibly rare. It has been said (in some documentary I saw) that all the hominid bones we ever found  all over the world (excluding the species  Homo itself) could fit easily into the trunk of a  normal car.

Thank you for this. I had no idea. And thank you for the link, as well! You're very kind. :)

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