Real Oreodont Skull?

[DJP]

Hi, all.  I'm looking to make my first decent fossil purchase.  Until now, it's been nothing but rough trilobites and a large ammonite of questionable authenticity.  It was cheap and I like how it looks so I'm not concerned.  If it is real, they clearly overdid it on cleaning it up.    

 

Anyway, I found this oreodont skull online.  Any thoughts on authenticity?  My gut says real but with lots of restoration.  In the first pic, the area below left from the eye socket looks way too smooth.  Same with the area below the other eye socket.  I figured this part was all fabricated.  Also, the upper canines appear to be a little too intact.  Any guidance from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Fossildude19]

Cropped, enlarged, and brightened. 

I think there is extensive restoration. 

 

  

 

 

 

  

[Randyw]

I agree with @Fossildude19 although I think there’s even more restoration then he marked.

[DJP]

Thanks.  The cheekbone restorations jumped out at me.  I now see what you're saying about the rear of the jawbone.  So it looks authentic to you but heavily restored?  Randyw, what other areas do you think are restored?  The maxilla around the canines appears to be reworked.  I thought the teeth looked too good, but now I see filler (?) where the teeth attach.  

[Randyw]

These areas also. I also colored in fossildudes marks so you can compare... there’s a couple other iffy areas I can’t decide on from the pictures. Also I’m dubious of several of the forward teeth and some are missing all together especially up front

[Harry Pristis]

What a nice job of restoration!  What may be unacceptable resto in an invertebrate fossil is quite expected in a vertebrate display fossil.  So many of these skulls are crushed and distorted, I think DJP should be proud to put this one on his shelf.

[Randyw]

Depends on what he likes and how it’s priced. Personally I don’t like restored pieces. If I want fake pieces then I’ll buy a cast. Otherwise I like it real with all the blemishes that may entail. Especially if they are priced like complete specimens. If it’s sold as restored and priced accordingly and the buyer likes it then they should go for it if not then better ones will come along sooner or later.

[LordTrilobite]

Definitely has some restoration. But it looks like it's well done.

[Harry Pristis]

10 hours ago, Randyw said:

Depends on what he likes and how it’s priced. Personally I don’t like restored pieces. If I want fake pieces then I’ll buy a cast. Otherwise I like it real with all the blemishes that may entail. Especially if they are priced like complete specimens. If it’s sold as restored and priced accordingly and the buyer likes it then they should go for it if not then better ones will come along sooner or later.

 

"I like it real with all the blemishes that may entail. Especially if they are priced like complete specimens."  Huh??

 

Randyw does make some sense in his last sentence -- he presents the classic approach to collecting invertebrates.

 

[Randyw]

Ok Harry completely misread those sentences. I like my fossils real with all the blemishes that may entail. Especially if the restored pieces are priced like complete specimens. There is that better? I figured that part was understood by most people but maybe not. 

[jpc]

I'm with  randyw on this.  

[Harry Pristis]

Restoration can be costly -- hours and materials don't come cheap.

In the end, I sense all you are trying to communicate is you prefer unrestored fossils.  You think of restored fossils as fakes.  You don't want to pay for restoration work and materials.  You are entitled to your preference.  Newbies who read this thread should understand that not everyone feels as you do.

[DJP]

I knew what you meant, Randy.  Thanks.  I've emailed the seller asking about how much restoration there is.  Whether I purchase will depend on how up front the seller is.  

[Randyw]

6 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

I sense all you are trying to communicate is you prefer unrestored fossils.  You think of restored fossils as fakes

Yes and no. Yes I communicated that I prefer unrestored fossils. But no i do not consider restored fossils as fakes as long as they are sold and listed as restored.

It’s  when restored fossils are marketed as perfect originals or as unrestored that I have an issue. If the seller is up front and honest about the restoration then as far as I’m concerned he can ask whatever he wants for it. And if a buyer is willing to pay it then that’s just fine with me. That’s between the buyer and seller. There are some artist restorers out there who’s work is astounding. 

6 hours ago, DJP said:

I've emailed the seller asking about how much restoration there is.  Whether I purchase will depend on how up front the seller is.  

That’s the perfect way to do it! It is a nice looking piece if it’s priced right! Good luck!

oh and welcome to the forum! Can’t wait to see what you have to show us and add to our discussions!

[aplomado]

Looks like a pretty nice specimen to me.

As everyone else said, it looks restored, like most of these skulls are.

 

Most of these skulls would probably look pretty terrible without restoration.

 

As long as you know what is restored, and are don't mind with it, there is no problem.  Ask what parts they restored for it.

I have a beautifully restored Oreodont upper skull.  The preparer used a slightly different color material for the restoration, so I know exactly what is original and what is not.  I am very happy with it.

[Randyw]

9 minutes ago, aplomado said:

The preparer used a slightly different color material for the restoration, so I know exactly what is original and what is not.

That’s a great idea! Kudos to your preparer!