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Permian fossils from Archer County (Texas Red Beds)


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Hi everyone!

 

This school year has been incredibly busy which is why I haven't been on the forum as much as I'd like to be.  However, about a month ago I ordered 3 lbs of washed "Texas Red Beds" (Permian-aged) matrix from PaleoTex - it arrived a few days ago, and I just couldn't wait until March Break to start looking through it (mainly because our March Break has been moved to mid-April - that's way too long to wait!!!) so I began the search last night.  I've found a bunch of teeth and bones so far, and I was hoping to get some identification help for some of the larger/more interesting items that I've found so far.   Thanks in advance to all who can help!

 

I'll tag a few people who might be interested and/or who might be able to help:

 

@grandpa @JamieLynn @jdp @dinodigger

 

Here we go...

 

Tooth 1 (three views)

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Tooth 2 (three views)

1912745479_tooth2a.thumb.JPG.74c0545268bbc8e14ea773f85a8fd80b.JPG415267581_tooth2b.thumb.JPG.53f75731856809db6a18d52876feb749.JPG1519495911_tooth2c.thumb.JPG.ad04db0974b43f4274ff78fa999088e3.JPG

 

Tooth 3 (three views)

1796160323_tooth3a.thumb.JPG.9ecc0725623a5303dab77deb8646ff57.JPG1879342059_tooth3b.thumb.JPG.9feb18f2060e7ae23803f1e2018000c4.JPG871045134_tooth3c.thumb.JPG.c7f21eddf1eb85be2a0f6edb131f94bb.JPG

 

Tooth 4 (three views)

640519418_tooth4a.thumb.JPG.973e7956078c7969730e94eafaf8ff02.JPG745427595_tooth4b.thumb.JPG.83ee70e655fcb0d06824548983609044.JPG1298872971_tooth4c.thumb.JPG.2ad1218327a2f483a86e46429e57ca3b.JPG

 

Tooth 5 (three views)

1713125811_tooth5a.thumb.JPG.46070406b412e50ca9ee1f625408e477.JPG1026532189_tooth5b.thumb.JPG.6b19dd216c237411746b67357c93b8c3.JPG1827237838_tooth5c.thumb.JPG.cf973e966f03bf14387582a8d5c9d31d.JPG

 

Tooth 6 (three views)

690184394_tooth6a.thumb.JPG.3f68ed1f44b595a385514123796992a7.JPG1743918583_tooth6b.thumb.JPG.8248566d466a87eace3e90d8df2a22ba.JPG1625670875_tooth6c.thumb.JPG.3e7282edb11fc2318020c3bbf26d7dc9.JPG

 

Tooth plate ! (one view)

1557225378_toothplate1.thumb.JPG.e02561dbde33f613e35e8acc80622498.JPG

 

Tooth plate 2 (one view)

1481453492_toothplate2.thumb.JPG.0689d62f9bf901d438764f8d14d6d183.JPG

 

Bone 1 (one view)

1107118013_bone1.thumb.JPG.badb5cced6f473b244f2353454021959.JPG

 

Bone 2 (two views)

649941307_bone2a.thumb.JPG.4332c4a7e1109e484931b0cf22ee3f63.JPG1322729204_bone2b.thumb.JPG.a07747ce8370c8bd317bac724a39034e.JPG

 

Bone 3 (one view)

1611118236_bone3.thumb.JPG.821de6cbcc97264a3f400beba873ded8.JPG

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minnbuckeye

Looks WAY TOO FUN!!!!!!!!! Nice finds so far. 

 

Mike

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Thanks, Mike @minnbuckeye!  It has indeed been fun so far - I've found lots of teeth so far (mostly small/tiny single teeth, as well as broken xenacanthid (Orthocanthus?) shark teeth) - I just wish I could identify them! :P

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Tidgy's Dad

I agree with Mike. 

Lovey finds, very interesting and looks like a lot of fun.

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Thanks, Adam @Tidgy's Dad :fistbump:

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Nimravis

Great finds Monica, and I love the pictures.

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Thanks, Ralph @Nimravis :SlapHands:

 

Some of the teeth look theropod-like with their serrations and curvature - I'm curious as to who they belonged to... :zzzzscratchchin:

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JamieLynn

From what little I know, (and definitely get a second opinion!)

I would say #3 is Eyrops tooth

I think #2,5 and 6 are broken Orthocanthus - larger ones that the tips have broken off of. 

 

Rather than Bone, I think 2 and 3 are both part of Orthocnthus spines.

 

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Sagebrush Steve
53 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

Great finds Monica, and I love the pictures.

I agree.  Keep having fun with it!

Just for clarification, are the scale lines in millimeters?

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ThePhysicist

Cool stuff!

 

I would guess that all the serrated teeth are Xenacanth shark cusps, and #3 is a labyrinthodont. #3 could be Trimerorhachis sp. The below teeth were ID'd as such in this thread.

 

trimerorachis_teeth1.thumb.jpg.8ac68635505189f1cbecc95691f4d68c.jpg

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Wrangellian

Hi Monica, you're assembling a fairly diverse collection, aren't you? :look::default_clap2:

It does look like fun stuff even if it is just vertebits, but I never know what I'm looking at with vertebits. Apparently those in the know can tell quite a lot about them! All I could do is "tooth?" But anything from the Permian is interesting, as the culmination of the Paleozoic before that big extinction, and the vertebrates are part of that. Wild mix of amphibian/reptile/proto-mammal critters, not to mention the marine ones.

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So many teeth in there:oO:

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grandpa

Some really neat stuff in there Monica.  I'm glad to hear that you found the time to go thru the matrix and are enjoying your finds.

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Troodon

Very cool and I sure it was a lot of fun pulling these out of that mix.  I'm sure you will get an ID on most of them.  :dinothumb:

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11 hours ago, JamieLynn said:

From what little I know, (and definitely get a second opinion!)

I would say #3 is Eyrops tooth

I think #2,5 and 6 are broken Orthocanthus - larger ones that the tips have broken off of. 

 

Rather than Bone, I think 2 and 3 are both part of Orthocnthus spines.

 

 

10 hours ago, ThePhysicist said:

Cool stuff!

 

I would guess that all the serrated teeth are Xenacanth shark cusps, and #3 is a labyrinthodont. #3 could be Trimerorhachis sp. The below teeth were ID'd as such in this thread.

 

trimerorachis_teeth1.thumb.jpg.8ac68635505189f1cbecc95691f4d68c.jpg

 

Thanks for the identification suggestions!  I wouldn't be surprised if most/all of the loose teeth are cusps broken off from xenacanthid teeth since those seem to be the most common find in the matrix - I just wanted to get a second (and perhaps also a third, fourth, etc. :P) opinion since vertebrates are definitely not my forte.

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11 hours ago, Sagebrush Steve said:

I agree.  Keep having fun with it!

Just for clarification, are the scale lines in millimeters?

 

Yes indeed - the scale shown is millimetres.

 

And I will keep having fun with it - so far I've done a once-over search of half the matrix so I have another half to go! 

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2 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

Hi Monica, you're assembling a fairly diverse collection, aren't you? :look::default_clap2:

It does look like fun stuff even if it is just vertebits, but I never know what I'm looking at with vertebits. Apparently those in the know can tell quite a lot about them! All I could do is "tooth?" But anything from the Permian is interesting, as the culmination of the Paleozoic before that big extinction, and the vertebrates are part of that. Wild mix of amphibian/reptile/proto-mammal critters, not to mention the marine ones.

 

The reason I ordered more Permian matrix is because over the holidays I acquired an additional side table for my display area - this prompted me to rearrange my fossils which led to a desire to increase my Permian fossils a bit due to the available space on a shelf.  Additionally, looking through matrix (especially when the weather outside is pretty chilly!) is a great way to get away from all of the online stuff I've been having to do for work/school this year :blink:

 

Re: vertebrate knowledge - I have very little, too, so I'm relying on our forum friends to help me identify the items I find :D

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1 hour ago, grandpa said:

Some really neat stuff in there Monica.  I'm glad to hear that you found the time to go thru the matrix and are enjoying your finds.

 

59 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Very cool and I sure it was a lot of fun pulling these out of that mix.  I'm sure you will get an ID on most of them.  :dinothumb:

 

Searching through matrix really is a fun yet relaxing pastime - thanks for chiming in!

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2 hours ago, RuMert said:

So many teeth in there:oO:

 

And I've only photographed a few of them!!!  There are so many super-tiny teeth - it's crazy!!!

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Wrangellian
17 hours ago, Monica said:

The reason I ordered more Permian matrix is because over the holidays I acquired an additional side table for my display area - this prompted me to rearrange my fossils which led to a desire to increase my Permian fossils a bit due to the available space on a shelf.  Additionally, looking through matrix (especially when the weather outside is pretty chilly!) is a great way to get away from all of the online stuff I've been having to do for work/school this year :blink:

Re: vertebrate knowledge - I have very little, too, so I'm relying on our forum friends to help me identify the items I find :D

Right! The Permian is sparse in my collection too.

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Nice microfossils! As others have suggested, I think most of this material is the xenacanthid shark Orthacanthus texensis, either fragments of teeth or fin spines, with the exception of tooth #3, which belongs to some sort of temnospondyl. You can tell this from the creases along the base of the tooth, which are part of what is called "labyrinthine infolding" or, more recently, "plicidentine." This is a folding of the tooth in on itself to create a strong attachment area. This is common in early tetrapods in general, but by the time of the Archer City group, it is mostly seen in temnospondyls. You can find this sort of tooth in Seymouria, but the shape of the tooth is relatively distinct, and this is not Seymouria.  I'm generally pretty hesitant to give an ID of isolated temnospondyl teeth because there aren't substantial differences between species, but if I had to guess I would probably guess Eryops.

 

I'm not sure about the tooth plates; those are typically sold as Archeria but I don't think they actually are. Yours are actually two distinct forms; you'll notice the one has dense regular denticles, whereas the other are more sparse and irregular in their organization. I normally wouldn't ID these specimens in my own lab, but there might be information there if you are serious about getting an ID on these.

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3 hours ago, jdp said:

Nice microfossils! As others have suggested, I think most of this material is the xenacanthid shark Orthacanthus texensis, either fragments of teeth or fin spines, with the exception of tooth #3, which belongs to some sort of temnospondyl. You can tell this from the creases along the base of the tooth, which are part of what is called "labyrinthine infolding" or, more recently, "plicidentine." This is a folding of the tooth in on itself to create a strong attachment area. This is common in early tetrapods in general, but by the time of the Archer City group, it is mostly seen in temnospondyls. You can find this sort of tooth in Seymouria, but the shape of the tooth is relatively distinct, and this is not Seymouria.  I'm generally pretty hesitant to give an ID of isolated temnospondyl teeth because there aren't substantial differences between species, but if I had to guess I would probably guess Eryops.

 

I'm not sure about the tooth plates; those are typically sold as Archeria but I don't think they actually are. Yours are actually two distinct forms; you'll notice the one has dense regular denticles, whereas the other are more sparse and irregular in their organization. I normally wouldn't ID these specimens in my own lab, but there might be information there if you are serious about getting an ID on these.

 

Thanks so much!  I'm happy with at least one item that's not from that freshwater shark!  (Don't get me wrong - it's a cool shark with cool teeth, but there's just too much of it in the mix :wacko::P [although, admittedly, I'm still hoping to find a fairly complete tooth from Orthocanthus - so far all that I've found have been broken teeth, but I still have half the bag of matrix to go through so there's still hope! :fingerscrossed:])

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again!

 

I'm back with some additional bits from the "Texas Red Beds" (Permian age), requesting more help (please and thank you @JamieLynn and @jdp :))

 

A couple more teeth - views of the base followed by views of the side for each:

DSC03738.thumb.JPG.a8d7b36afbdb8cb607951a0e656ee568.JPGDSC03742.thumb.JPG.8b2c0ea8d734d6406831297091c46c41.JPGDSC03748.thumb.JPG.79f5a79e95a35dbc83e4dc3fee55c0ab.JPG

 

Two more tooth plates?  (two views of each)

DSC03727.thumb.JPG.f940139043fcb722094904c391813480.JPGDSC03728.thumb.JPG.3ae67f84632296934b4e1a2acb72c3b8.JPG

 

Another tooth plate? (two views)

DSC03733.thumb.JPG.589e0cff53035acf6fd724521baa3457.JPGDSC03734.thumb.JPG.8b7f736259b4a3a3f65cdfa40cc48d41.JPG

 

Three skull fragments?  Any idea from which possible animal? (two views of each)

DSC03729.thumb.JPG.7114a631282b17af0ff3dc9b84feade3.JPGDSC03730.thumb.JPG.0786ac4e49118c7ec0f0b4acf7245a41.JPG

 

Two cute little bones: the one on the left is definitely a bone, the one on the right I'm not sure of (two views of each)

DSC03725.thumb.JPG.bd90899bc0c3b506f79b2d1bff5ad487.JPGDSC03726.thumb.JPG.a7c497ddc099e263e2bc3c2edd25d87e.JPG

 

Could these four items be bony plates of some sort?  Or are they nothing? (two views of each)

DSC03751.thumb.JPG.c344bdff6736be3b354eebb2ec4947c1.JPGDSC03752.thumb.JPG.bdd92b048ac841b919cf5dd32d40378c.JPG

 

Barbed Orthocanthus spine chunk? (two views)

DSC03735.thumb.JPG.8b4911a0d62022c2f1b04b7f0c26ecf2.JPGDSC03736.thumb.JPG.92750faa8231b3658d7eb2ff7ade8af6.JPG

 

Thanks to anyone/everyone who can help!!!

 

 

 

 

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JamieLynn

The oval dermal plates and the skull fragments are likely from Amphibian Eryops.  

Tooth looks similar to an Ophicodon I found, but I am not at all an expert on those! 

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