Mailbox Whale Jaw

[Shellseeker]

Last couple of days, I have been searching the internet, for Hipparion horse teeth, Beaver Molars, and small whale teeth driven by TFF threads to answer questions in my mind or help to identify a fossil.  I was doing a google search for "Whale tooth Florida jaw"  and triggered this fossil, supposedly found in the Miocene of South Carolina !!!! That is close to Florida so we might have the same fossil whales here !!!  and @Boesse might help me to identify it.

 

The final aspect is that it was not all that pricey,  and since I only have 2 pieces of toothed whale jaw in my collection,  snapped it up.

 

[Shellseeker]

I decided to "tickle" this thread, seeking input on an unknown fossil jaw.

I purchased this fossil from a lady, who indicated that she obtained it at the 2019 Tuscon Fossil Show , where the dealer told her that it was a whale jaw with one tooth from the Miocene of South Carolina. I challenge the ID of "whale" and hopefully many/all on TFF would also.

I postulate that this is the right half of a marine mammal mandible. It is 1 inch wide and thus doubled , would be a 2 inch lower jaw.  Some additional Photos:

 

Note that there are 2 empty Alveoli to the left of the tooth.  So doubled, we would have 6 teeth across the front of the mandible. 

 

1st 2 photos below provide closeups of tooth and alveoli

 

Last Photo.  What is that groove? Could it be space for a canine?

 

@JBMugu@siteseer If this was found at STH, what are the possibilities?  Allodesmus ?  Seal ? I am not sure I can envision a dolphin having a jaw like this, but I guess that's another possibility.

 

Reaching out to @Boesse @Harry Pristis  Can this be a whale or dolphin jaw? Hard to believe it is so difficult to identify, especially if it came from the Miocene of South Carolina. With that tooth, I can not quite get my mind around a non_marine mammal.

 

and to all who see this post, if you see any similarities to fossils you have seen, please post the observation.  Thanks,  Jack

[Harry Pristis]

First impression:  tapir canine in the lower symphysis.

 

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said:

First impression:  tapir canine in the lower symphysis.

Thank you, Harry.. I'll have to get used to the idea, but now that you have stepped forward, I have to say that it certainly looks like a Tapir canine, and same approximate size and similar Alveoli..

My problem many times is .... forest for the trees. 

[Boesse]

Agreed with Harry on this: the bottom of the mandible is curved, indicating it doesn't belong to a dolphin (should be straight). I didn't comment a few days ago because I didn't have any helpful thoughts, but when I looked at it a second time, I thought maybe tapir or pig, and Harry's got it.

 

[Shellseeker]

47 minutes ago, Boesse said:

the bottom of the mandible is curved, indicating it doesn't belong to a dolphin (should be straight).

Another insight,  seems obvious and reflects my experience with the dolphin mandibles I have seen.....

 

I am now trying to determine which of the 5 or 6 Tapir species that one belongs... Guess I'll be discussing this one with Richard Hulbert.

 

This is Tapirus haysii  and it seems it is prepared to break along the lines of my fossil symphysis.

Figure 5. UF 86113, right and left premaxillae of Tapirus haysii with first, second, and third incisors from the Leisey Shell Pit 1A in Hillsborough County, Florida. Occlusal (top), medial (middle) and lateral (bottom) views. Note that the enlarged, pointed tooth is the I3, not the canine.

[Harry Pristis]

I am surprised to read that the caniniform teeth are actually modified third incisors.  That means that the canine is lost, rather than a lost incisor.  That feels counterintuitive somehow.

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

I am surprised to read that the caniniform teeth are actually modified third incisors.  That means that the canine is lost, rather than a lost incisor.  That feels counterintuitive somehow.

Harry,

I was equally surprised.  So this tooth that I had identified as Canine is really a 3rd Incisor ??? I will probe in my email to Hulbert.