Brachiopod from Bear Gulch - ID?

[oilshale]

Does anyone have any idea what kind of brachiopod this could be? I'm sure we can't identify the species, but maybe the family or even the genus?

 

Carboniferous

Serpukhovian
Bear Gulch

Montana

[Thecosmilia Trichitoma]

@Tidgy's Dad

[Tidgy's Dad]

Very nice. Shell material preserved in places. 

It's a productid pedicle valve, but I don't know which one. 

Size might help, but I doubt it, I'm sorry to say I don't know the productids from this locality, though I understand they sometimes have spines and shells nicely preserved.  

[oilshale]

9 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Very nice. Shell material preserved in places. 

It's a productid pedicle valve, but I don't know which one. 

Size might help, but I doubt it, I'm sorry to say I don't know the productids from this locality, though I understand they sometimes have spines and shells nicely preserved.  

Thanks Adam, I appreciate it. I have no idea about brachiopods.
The dimensions are about 4cm by 3.5cm.

 I already expected that one does not get very far with such a flattened critter. I will file it as "Productid non det."

[jdp]

I think this is a strophomenid. I'm not 100% on top of the BG brachiopods, but in my experience, the productids from the BG tend to be spiny as hell.

[oilshale]

19 hours ago, jdp said:

I think this is a strophomenid. I'm not 100% on top of the BG brachiopods, but in my experience, the productids from the BG tend to be spiny as hell.

Well, anyway, you know much better than I do. I have a Productus moorefieldianus from there and it is really spiny. Strophomenid might fit well.  I have found a strophomenid from Bear Gulch in the collections of the Paleontology center of the University of Montana  The University of Montana Paleontology Center (umt.edu) which looks similar:

The picture is quite bad, but the strophomenid Antiquatonia sp. (No 1 on the slab,  lower left) could fit.

 

Thanks a lot

Thomas

[Tidgy's Dad]

7 hours ago, oilshale said:

Well, anyway, you know much better than I do. I have a Productus moorefieldianus from there and it is really spiny. Strophomenid might fit well.  I have found a strophomenid from Bear Gulch in the collections of the Paleontology center of the University of Montana  The University of Montana Paleontology Center (umt.edu) which looks similar:

The picture is quite bad, but the strophomenid Antiquatonia sp. (No 1 on the slab,  lower left) could fit.

Antiquatonia is a productid, not a strophomenid. 

[oilshale]

On 3/15/2021 at 2:05 AM, Tidgy's Dad said:

Antiquatonia is a productid, not a strophomenid. 

Oh, then the website of the University of Montana is not up to date - it describes Antiquatonia as being:

Order: Strophomenida
Family: Dictyoclostidae
Genus: Antiquatonia

 

Thanks for your help

Thomas

[DPS Ammonite]

6 minutes ago, oilshale said:

Oh, then the website of the University of Montana is not up to date - it describes Antiquatonia as being:

Order: Strophomenida
Family: Dictyoclostidae
Genus: Antiquatonia

 

Thanks for your help

Thomas

Try using the Mindat database. It has links to PaleobioDB  and GBIF. We won’t mention the links to Wikipedia.

 

https://www.mindat.org/taxon-4869889.html

 

@Tidgy's Dad Have you tried Mindat for taxonomy?

 

[oilshale]

10 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Try using the Mindat database. It has links to PaleobioDB  and GBIF. We won’t mention the links to Wikipedia.

 

https://www.mindat.org/taxon-4869889.html

 

@Tidgy's Dad Have you tried Mindat for taxonomy?

 

I prefer fossilworks - my experience with Mindat has not been so good. There are a lot of genera missing. Wikipedia can be a disaster. Too many amateurs (like me) write entries there.

[Tidgy's Dad]

3 hours ago, oilshale said:

Oh, then the website of the University of Montana is not up to date - it describes Antiquatonia as being:

Order: Strophomenida
Family: Dictyoclostidae
Genus: Antiquatonia

 

Thanks for your help

Thomas

I think that's wrong. 

I have

Class: Strophomenata. (hence the term strophomenate) 

Order : Productida

Suborder : Productina

Superfamily : Productoidea

Family : Productidae

Subfamily : Productinae

Tribe : Retariini

Genus : Antiquatonia

 

I may have missed a paper, of course, but my notes have the above and I've just checked with the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology and they have the same. So do Fossilworks and Mindat. 

 

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

3 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Try using the Mindat database. It has links to PaleobioDB  and GBIF. We won’t mention the links to Wikipedia.

 

https://www.mindat.org/taxon-4869889.html

 

@Tidgy's Dad Have you tried Mindat for taxonomy?

 

I use it sometimes, but find it a bit annoying, just the layout, i think, but I usually cross-reference as much information as I can find, even Wiki for any references it may give. I prefer to use the latest papers where possible, but sometimes you have to cobble things together. I have a whole file of cross-referenced notes and goodness knows how many papers now. 

[Theosmom]

It looks like an orthotetid to me. Quite likely Schuchertella based on the overall outline and the ribbing.

[Missourian]

Agree with it being an orthotetid. It resembles the Derbyia that I find in the Pennsylvanian. I'm not familiar with Mississippian forms, so it could be a completely different genus.

[cngodles]

I second Derbyia. Not sure on the species, looks like Derbyia texana, but maybe not right for the age?

 

https://pennsylvanianatlas.org/genera/Derbyia/

https://fossil.15656.com/catalog/search-for/Derbyia

Edited July 21, 2022 by cngodles