Chris finner Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Hi I found this on the coast of Whitby.. the circle at the top stud out and something different to the slate. After a bit of chipping the main bit came away easily and is definitely separate to the slate?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Hello and welcome to TFF! I'm not on much help, but I see there might be pyrite crystals on the matrix and on the supposed fossils. What is very interesting to me is that Belemnites rostrum with nice epibionts/endobionts. (Could you post a few pictures in high-res with that?) Please wait other opinions. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 That’s the best I can do on my phone but I could take higher res or macro with my canon if you need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhiggi Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Looks like that and the round one could just be pyritic nodules. Some odd shapes occur in the shale. Can’t see obvious bone texture in the cross section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainefossils Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 I agree with @abyssunder that beneath the other potential fossils is a belemnite rostrum. The more I learn, the more I find that I know nothing. Regards, Asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris finner said: That’s the best I can do on my phone but I could take higher res or macro with my canon if you need it Thank you for the pictures! If I'm not wrong, there might be what is called Entobia isp. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 That’s great thanks for that any idea on the big bit above the Belemnite?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Could be a burrow. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) The shape is neat and is suggestive but the end does not show any bone like texture, no dense cortex or sponge like trabecular bone. It really is suggestive. Maybe show it to a local expert Edited April 4, 2021 by val horn Additional thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 9 hours ago, abyssunder said: Thank you for the pictures! If I'm not wrong, there might be what is called Entobia isp. It does look similar to Entobia but it's a suggestive mineral crust of calcified shale particles. Sadly, there isn't any Entobia in the Upper Lias around there, or any other obvious attached fauna - fossils were generally buried too quickly. 1 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 14 hours ago, val horn said: The shape is neat and is suggestive but the end does not show any bone like texture, no dense cortex or sponge like trabecular bone. It really is suggestive. Maybe show it to a local expert Hi the end was visible and worn before I split it... could those structures be smoothed of from exposure to the elements? thanks for the reply chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just found this neat little clam in the same rock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 16 hours ago, GeschWhat said: Could be a burrow. What’s a burrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 many creatures will live in the mud burrowing in the mud to look for food particles as earthworms do, or for protection against predators and these burrows will fill in with a finer sediment and show up as trace fossils they will have a 3d texture and can have a complex crossing pattern but do not show much if any internal structures. A burrow is much more likely to have the smooth even texture that you samples have than to have the internal structure completely wear away. that being said when I googled ichthyosaur humerus several photos show fossils that look alot like yours therefore I suggested that you want to get a local expert to evaluate your find because sometimes the fossils from a given formation do have different characteristics. I dont see much internal character particularly in the figure with 4 fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, val horn said: many creatures will live in the mud burrowing in the mud to look for food particles as earthworms do, or for protection against predators and these burrows will fill in with a finer sediment and show up as trace fossils they will have a 3d texture and can have a complex crossing pattern but do not show much if any internal structures. A burrow is much more likely to have the smooth even texture that you samples have than to have the internal structure completely wear away. that being said when I googled ichthyosaur humerus several photos show fossils that look alot like yours therefore I suggested that you want to get a local expert to evaluate your find because sometimes the fossils from a given formation do have different characteristics. I dont see much internal character particularly in the figure with 4 fossils Thanks that’s really informative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Chris finner said: What’s a burrow? As @val horn described, it is a feeding or living chamber for a burrowing animal. Since yours has a bulbous end, it would suggest this could be a living chamber. I couldn't really tell from the photos, but it looks like there may be tiny fossil remains visible on it's surface. This is common in burrows. This can be the remains of past meals or just debris that washed in when the chamber was filled with sediment. I have pointed out a few items that may be fossil bits on the photo. The end (chipped portion visible on this photo) shows no bone structure, or does any other part of the object. So I have to disagree that this is part of an ichthyosaur. If it was me, I would prep the burrow to see if there is a critter still in there. As others have suggested, it is always a good idea to consult local experts. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Taking a closer look at your photos, I think I spotted my favorite fossil (technically an ichnofossil or trace fossil) - COPROLITE (aka, fossil poop)! Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 35 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: As @val horn described, it is a feeding or living chamber for a burrowing animal. Since yours has a bulbous end, it would suggest this could be a living chamber. I couldn't really tell from the photos, but it looks like there may be tiny fossil remains visible on it's surface. This is common in burrows. This can be the remains of past meals or just debris that washed in when the chamber was filled with sediment. I have pointed out a few items that may be fossil bits on the photo. The end (chipped portion visible on this photo) shows no bone structure, or does any other part of the object. So I have to disagree that this is part of an ichthyosaur. If it was me, I would prep the burrow to see if there is a critter still in there. As others have suggested, it is always a good idea to consult local experts. That would be wonderful if something was inside!!!! Don’t think I have the tools to investigate though thanks for the info!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Chris finner said: That would be wonderful if something was inside!!!! Don’t think I have the tools to investigate though thanks for the info!! I usually just use an X-acto blade and take off a little material at a time. It is always best to do it under magnification if possible. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, GeschWhat said: Taking a closer look at your photos, I think I spotted my favorite fossil (technically an ichnofossil or trace fossil) - COPROLITE (aka, fossil poop)! I found this bit interesting as well!! It seems to arch around and I was hoping for a jaw of some kind..... but I’m happy with poop!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhiggi Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 On a side note, the whole block of shale will fall to bits if left to dry out. When we first started collecting we brought home a few bits of shale like this with belemnites and ammonites in, only to find a pile of small pieces a few weeks later 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, dhiggi said: On a side note, the whole block of shale will fall to bits if left to dry out. When we first started collecting we brought home a few bits of shale like this with belemnites and ammonites in, only to find a pile of small pieces a few weeks later Thanks , is there anyway to prevent that ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhiggi Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Chris finner said: Thanks , is there anyway to prevent that ?? This stuff liberally painted on (it’s very thin so soaks in), used in a very well ventilated place until it’s dry (pretty quick) is what most people use. If you do decide to go down that route then keep it somewhere cold and a bit damp until you get the stuff. https://www.zoicpalaeotech.co.uk/collections/paraloid/products/paraloid-b-72-100g-acetone-1l-bundle Edited April 4, 2021 by dhiggi Forgot the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris finner Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, dhiggi said: This stuff liberally painted on (it’s very thin so soaks in), used in a very well ventilated place until it’s dry (pretty quick) is what most people use. If you do decide to go down that route then keep it somewhere cold and a bit damp until you get the stuff. Sorry I don’t see a link for the stuff ... what’s it called .. ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhiggi Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Chris finner said: Sorry I don’t see a link for the stuff ... what’s it called .. ta Just realised I missed it off and edited my post. It’s called paraloid and is mixed with acetone to form a very thin glue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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