What kind of fish mouth plate is this?

[FloridaLemonShark13]

Wading in one of the creeks in my neighborhood provided a few small fossils and I found a interesting looking mouth plate.

This is a late Pleistocene area, and in the Tampa member of the Arcadia formation, and the other finds I’m wondering is are these alligator scutes or could I be wrong? 

[Thomas.Dodson]

I don't see any attached images.

[GeschWhat]

Hmmm...all I see is a dancing banana. 

[FloridaLemonShark13]

Oh, sorry. I forgot to attach the image. ahahahah Here it is everyone 

 

 

  

  

[Al Dente]

It looks like a very worn burrfish or porcupine fish toothplate.

[FloridaLemonShark13]

I thought pufferfish or parrot fish, I’m gonna go with puffer fish on this 

[digit]

Yup. Trust @Al Dente on this one. Pufferfish have these stacks of hardened plates behind their arc of teeth. Occasionally, you'll find them with the little teeth still attached along the edge. The last photo above seems to be a different (and larger) object with an interesting texture. We could use other views of that if you are seeking an ID on that one as well.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[FloridaLemonShark13]

On 4/11/2021 at 7:13 PM, digit said:

Yup. Trust @Al Dente on this one. Pufferfish have these stacks of hardened plates behind their arc of teeth. Occasionally, you'll find them with the little teeth still attached along the edge. The last photo above seems to be a different (and larger) object with an interesting texture. We could use other views of that if you are seeking an ID on that one as well.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

yeah i was thinking it was an alligator scute, the patterning on it looks like a fossilized American alligator, maybe only a couple thousand years ago

[jpc]

Raising my hand from deep within the Cretaceous and Eocene....I don't have the fish knowledge that these others folks have, but that is not an alligator/croc scute.  

[digit]

30 minutes ago, jpc said:

I don't have the fish knowledge that these others folks have, but that is not an alligator/croc scute.  

Crocodilian osteoderms definitely have that pockmarked surface but in my limited experience there is more separation between the depressions. The more "orange peel" surface on the item in question reminds me very much of the texture of Holmesina osteoderms. Some of them have a bit of a keel to them which is also a characteristic of the crocodilian osteoderms. Another characteristic of most of the Holmesina plates is the narrow tapered edge around the osteoderm where it is thinner than the body of the osteoderm. This is not seen in crocodilian osteoderms which simply taper-off gradually from the thicker keep to quite often a knife-edge around the perimeter. Would be interesting to see this object in profile view to gauge the thickness and to see it from below. This object is interestingly oval (more crocodilian-like) which is less like the rectangular or hexagonal osteoderms usually found on the body but could be one of the more unusual shaped ones on the head or tail or other curved surfaces. Not stating that this is Holmesina but only raising the possibility.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

 

 

[FloridaLemonShark13]

6 hours ago, digit said:

Crocodilian osteoderms definitely have that pockmarked surface but in my limited experience there is more separation between the depressions. The more "orange peel" surface on the item in question reminds me very much of the texture of Holmesina osteoderms. Some of them have a bit of a keel to them which is also a characteristic of the crocodilian osteoderms. Another characteristic of most of the Holmesina plates is the narrow tapered edge around the osteoderm where it is thinner than the body of the osteoderm. This is not seen in crocodilian osteoderms which simply taper-off gradually from the thicker keep to quite often a knife-edge around the perimeter. Would be interesting to see this object in profile view to gauge the thickness and to see it from below. This object is interestingly oval (more crocodilian-like) which is less like the rectangular or hexagonal osteoderms usually found on the body but could be one of the more unusual shaped ones on the head or tail or other curved surfaces. Not stating that this is Holmesina but only raising the possibility.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

 

 

OH YOUR Right i do find a lot of glyptodont scute in the creek which makes sense, so With the photos thanks for the identification photos, I also find a lot of small lemon shark teeth, and aquatic life, and miscellaneous bones, if I can uncover some better stuff I’ll post it thanks for the clear up