fossilsonwheels Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I recently picked up 5 Lamniformes teeth from the Kem Kem Beds. 3 are easy ID’s, Leptostyrax. There are 2 that I need a little help with. First one is 2.1 cm. I know both Cenocarcharias and Haimirichia are known from the Kem Kem beds. I have no examples of either in my collection. I didn’t find a lot of examples of Haimirichia so I can really pin it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 I have not a clue on this second one. It is right at 2 cm. No evidence of cusplets at all. It has me stumped. It reminded me of Scapanorhynchus a bit but I am not at all confident in that. The cusp is pretty robust but the root doesn’t look Cretoxyrhina but that also popped in my head. Basically I don’t know and it bothers me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalotitan Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I'm not too well-versed in lamniforms, but the first tooth does resemble the Carcharias (Cenocarcharias) tenuiplicatus tooth from the Kem Kem Group (G & H in first image), as well as other teeth from different localities: Not perfect matches, but the overall morphology looks similar. It doesn't match well with Haimirichia in comparison (E & F in first image): I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others, may be more worthwhile. Unfortunately not sure with the second one myself... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Hey Kurt check this out for your first tooth, Cenocarcharias tenuiplicatus fig 4 and 6 A new selachian fauna from the Coleraine Formation (Upper Cretaceous/Cenomanian) of Minnesota. Chase, 2001 No clues on your second tooth but any chance its Odontaspid some have very tiny cusps and the remnants just gone. The Leptostyrax is a mystery. Its not included in the recently published fanual list by Ibrahim et al. from the KK Group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Troodon said: Hey Kurt check this out for your first tooth, Cenocarcharias tenuiplicatus fig 4 and 6 A new selachian fauna from the Coleraine Formation (Upper Cretaceous/Cenomanian) of Minnesota. Chase, 2001 No clues on your second tooth but any chance its Odontaspid some have very tiny cusps and the remnants just gone. The Leptostyrax is a mystery. Its not included in the recently published fanual list by Ibrahim et al. from the KK Group. Hi Frank The second tooth could have had small cusplets. Under the scope I can see where that could be possible. I’m good with calling the first one Cenocarcharias. It does look like a good match. The second one could be as well if it had cusplets but I’m less confident in that. The Leptostyrax are interesting. I had been given one by @Anomotodon previously and the three I just got definitely do appear to be Leptostyrax. I know that @Untitled had or has one as well. I will post a picture. They are good sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Megalotitan said: I'm not too well-versed in lamniforms, but the first tooth does resemble the Carcharias (Cenocarcharias) tenuiplicatus tooth from the Kem Kem Group (G & H in first image), as well as other teeth from different localities: Not perfect matches, but the overall morphology looks similar. It doesn't match well with Haimirichia in comparison (E & F in first image): I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others, may be more worthwhile. Unfortunately not sure with the second one myself... Thank you for the assistance and information. Very helpful. I’ll go with Cenocarcharias as the ID for the first one. It’s a good match. The second one I’m still not sure on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haravex Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Amazing you have gotten so many shark teeth from there exceptionally rare 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, Haravex said: Amazing you have gotten so many shark teeth from there exceptionally rare I just lucked out. Saw them on the auction site and ended getting them for a really low price. Surprisingly low price. They are in pretty good shape too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Here are the Leptostyrax teeth. Pretty good sized and in decent condition. Perhaps I should say Leptostyrax like teeth lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Nice Found this on the web. Looks like a David Ward observation. You might want to contact him to see if anyone has described them from the KK. He's usually at the Tucson show and open to helping others with IDs but not this year From Book Bernissart Dinosaurs and Early Cretaceous Terrestrial Ecosystems edited by Pascal Godefroit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Troodon said: Nice Found this on the web. Looks like a David Ward observation. You might want to contact him to see if anyone has described them from the KK. He's usually at the Tucson show and open to helping others with IDs but not this year From Book Bernissart Dinosaurs and Early Cretaceous Terrestrial Ecosystems edited by Pascal Godefroit Very interesting. Thank you Frank. I will try to contact David Ward. Definitely worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Hi Kurt, I agree with Haravex that lamniform teeth from the Kem Kem Beds are incredibly rare and then you took it to the next level getting those teeth in such great condition. I have a Leptostyrax tooth, the only one I've had a shot at, and it was part of a trade at least twenty years ago. It's less complete than any of those. I also have a Cretodus tooth just over 3/4 inches. I always thought it might not be a case of Cretodus tolerating freshwater or brackish water but perhaps a brief advance of the sea in the area. It would explain the extreme rarity there and the absence elsewhere. I'm wondering if those first two teeth are even Cretaceous age. At a glance I would have guessed Eocene (early-mid for the first one; mid-late for the second). Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, siteseer said: Hi Kurt, I agree with Haravex that lamniform teeth from the Kem Kem Beds are incredibly rare and then you took it to the next level getting those teeth in such great condition. I have a Leptostyrax tooth, the only one I've had a shot at, and it was part of a trade at least twenty years ago. It's less complete than any of those. I also have a Cretodus tooth just over 3/4 inches. I always thought it might not be a case of Cretodus tolerating freshwater or brackish water but perhaps a brief advance of the sea in the area. It would explain the extreme rarity there and the absence elsewhere. I'm wondering if those first two teeth are even Cretaceous age. At a glance I would have guessed Eocene (early-mid for the first one; mid-late for the second). Jess Hi Jess How the heck are you doing ? They could be Eocene. I had never gone through this particular seller before and I don’t think they are a shark person really. I can ask for more information but I don’t know beyond that how to make a determination of age. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 2:50 PM, fossilsonwheels said: Hi Jess How the heck are you doing ? They could be Eocene. I had never gone through this particular seller before and I don’t think they are a shark person really. I can ask for more information but I don’t know beyond that how to make a determination of age. Kurt Hi Kurt, I'm fine. How's it going? That's a great group you found. Usually, when someone has Kem Kem shark teeth, there's a partial and maybe a piece of something enough to say it's a shark tooth. I've some nice fin spines, though. The weird thing is if they are from hybodonts, where are the teeth? I've never seen one. They might be too small to notice unless some screeenable sites exist. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 4:59 PM, siteseer said: Hi Kurt, I'm fine. How's it going? That's a great group you found. Usually, when someone has Kem Kem shark teeth, there's a partial and maybe a piece of something enough to say it's a shark tooth. I've some nice fin spines, though. The weird thing is if they are from hybodonts, where are the teeth? I've never seen one. They might be too small to notice unless some screeenable sites exist. Jess I am good. Been busier. The Museum is opening back up on a limited basis so that is good. Kids are good so I am good lol I have seen exactly one Hybodont tooth from the Kem Kem Beds, somewhere on line. I think they are just over looked in favor of the the larger material. I am sure there are screenable sites I just get the impression that those sites do not get screened. That is my theory anyway lol I think you are right about the other two teeth. I saw a tooth labeled as Carcharias africanus that was a dead ringer for my tooth except it had small cusplets which mine could have had. I think Eocene is probably the age. Still not a bad haul for what they cost. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onafets Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Hello, someone can tell me any opinion about the species of my teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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