Ozan Mystery Object

[Titan]

I found this in-situ in the Ozan formation and I can't figure out what it might be. I thought the concentric circles might point to a highly worn gastropod. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

[Fossildude19]

Shark coprolite (poo). 

[Titan]

@Fossildude19 Awesome, thank you Tim! Appreciate the help!

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Titan

[Fossildude19]

2 minutes ago, Titan said:

@Fossildude19 Awesome, thank you Tim! Appreciate the help!

 

 

 

Mine is  a really crappy answer.   

[Titan]

Hahaha thanks for dumping it! First shark coprolite I've found!  Little guy that jettisoned it might have been evading something bigger!

[JohnJ]

Cololite   Nice find.  

[Titan]

@JohnJ Interesting, thank you John! Editing the tag.

[BobWill]

Very well-preserved specimen! Often they can be distorted or worn too much to verify the details but the spiral groove can only mean one thing, number 2! Even present-day sharks have something in their anatomy that produces that distinctive pattern.

[Titan]

@BobWill Thank you sir! I didn't know what it was but I'm glad I put it on here because I was thinking it was just a really worn down gastropod. Once I get my prep lab set up (few more months hopefully!) I plan to give it a light dusting off and then check it under magnification to see if there are any identifiable inclusions in it. I'd like to know what its last meal was, especially since it's so small. The knowledge and willingness to share it on this forum make me smile almost every time I'm on here

Edited April 14, 2021 by Titan

[Coco]

@GeschWhat

 

Coco

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Like @Fossildude19, I've been told that these are indeed shark coprolites. But @Al Dente's argument on these actually being chondrichthyan cololites seems quite convincing.

[Fossildude19]

I couldn't remember the word Cololite for the life of me, so I went with coprolite.   

[Al Dente]

6 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Like @Fossildude19, I've been told that these are indeed shark coprolites. But @Al Dente's argument on these actually being chondrichthyan cololites seems quite convincing.

If you read further on the linked thread, you will see some modern spiral shark droppings that convinced me that these can be true coprolites.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

53 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

If you read further on the linked thread, you will see some modern spiral shark droppings that convinced me that these can be true coprolites.

 

You mean this post, right? Very interesting to see, and good to know based on actual evidence, that sharks (or at least certain species) do have spiral coprolites. 

[Titan]

@Al Dente Thanks for the further clarification! That post was very informative.

[GeschWhat]

On 4/13/2021 at 5:01 PM, JohnJ said:

Cololite   Nice find.  

 

12 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Like @Fossildude19, I've been told that these are indeed shark coprolites. But @Al Dente's argument on these actually being chondrichthyan cololites seems quite convincing.

I agree coprolite or maybe a cololite. It could be from a shark or another fish with a spiral valve (ray, skate, lungfish, + others). Modern lungfish poop is encased in a mucous membrane when expelled. That is why they maintain their shape. Boris, a West African Lungfish was kind enough to send me a photo of his poop via his human @TNCollector. 

 

Here is one from my collection that is very similar (also from the Ozan). The "folds" on the left side of this one hint of a cololite, but this may just incidental to compression during expulsion). It is hard to make them out in Boris' example above, but some folds can be seen.

 

The only way to really determine whether you have a cololite is to find it inside the body cavity of an animal or find preserved bits of the valve. I do have an example of a couple of specimens from the UK that is suspect are cololites. Here is one example. 

The last image is a microscopic view of a gap visible between fecal spirals in cross section. Notice what appears to be tissue from a spiral valve. This isn't something I see very often.

 

 

 

[Titan]

@GeschWhat Wow Lori, your specimen from the Ozan does look extremely similar! Thanks for sharing that along with the other photos and info. In your notes/ log would you label it as an indet. bromalite then?

[GeschWhat]

Just now, Titan said:

@GeschWhat Wow Lori, your specimen from the Ozan does look extremely similar! Thanks for sharing that along with the other photos and info. In your notes/ log would you label it as an indet. bromalite then?

I list mine as a spiral fish coprolite or cololite. For me, bromalites is too vague. You have one or the other. You may find this helpful.

[Titan]

@GeschWhat That makes sense, thank you!

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

4 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

I list mine as a spiral fish coprolite or cololite. For me, bromalites is too vague. You have one or the other. You may find this helpful.

 

Nice illustration, Lori! And really informative too!

[caterpillar]

Mosasaurs have also spiral coprolites

[GeschWhat]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:53 AM, caterpillar said:

Mosasaurs have also spiral coprolites

I have never heard that before. Was a mosasaur found with spiral valve intact? 

[caterpillar]

Here a mosasaur coprolite

http://www.paleotheque.fr/global/photo.php?fiche=123&nbphotos=3&categorie=vertebres

[GeschWhat]

11 hours ago, caterpillar said:

Here a mosasaur coprolite

http://www.paleotheque.fr/global/photo.php?fiche=123&nbphotos=3&categorie=vertebres

What makes you think it is from a mosasaur? Generally, in the coprolite world, we do not assign coprolites to specific animals. There are a few exceptions, one of which is the spiral form. They are identified as fish coprolites because certain species of modern fish have spiral valves and produce similar pellets.  Coprolites are described by morphology and assigned an ichnotaxa. As with other trace fossils, we don't necessarily know what animal produced them unless they are directly associated with the fossil (body) of an animal. What you have there is an amphipolar spiral coprolite with fish scale inclusions. I know the stomach contents of mosasaurs and ichthyosaurs have been found, but have yet to see anything that indicates marine reptiles have spiral valves. That said, unless your specimen was found in the gut of a mosasaur, it is likely from a fish coprolite (shark, ray, skate, etc.). I know online I see a lot of spiral's from Morocco described as "Spinosaurid coprolites," but again, there is nothing in the fossil record or in the physiology of modern animals that indicates these are from anything other than fish. 

 

That is a beautiful specimen by the way. 

[caterpillar]

These coprolites are found in association with a lot of mosasaur remains.

Here is a plate taken from a French publication concerning the deposit where you can see these coprolites