Mesozoic Gars

[Microraptorfan]

I thought I would ask here, do any of the members here have Mesozoic gar fossils in their collection, im not looking to buy them, more wanting to see the range of Mesozoic fossil gar material owned by members here

[jpc]

Gar scales are among the most common small fossils in the Lance Fm (Maastichtian) of Wyoming and Hell Creek of Montana.  I have thousands of them.  There is one articulated gar that I now of from the Hell Creek, now at the Field Museum in Chicago. 

[piranha]

1 hour ago, jpc said:

There is one articulated gar that I now of from the Hell Creek, now at the Field Museum in Chicago. 

 

Is this a mysterious unpublished specimen? That sounds like a tall tale of a fish tail...

 

 

Grande, L. 2010

An Empirical Synthetic Pattern Study of Gars (Lepisosteiformes) and Closely Related Species, Based

Mostly on Skeletal Anatomy. The Resurrection of Holostei. Copeia, Special Publication 6, 10(2A):1-871

[RJB]

Hey @jpc, May I ask what one does with 1000's of gar scales?  I have found two rotten gars whilst digging for fish but left all the scales. 

 

RB

[Microraptorfan]

Found the articulated hell creek gar specimen on a website

[Microraptorfan]

Maybe Atractosteus occidentalis

[piranha]

Hopefully JP is correct and this specimen was purchased by the Field Museum. We should be looking forward to the inevitable upcoming publication by Lance Grande, but according to this <LINK> the 3D scan was uploaded six years ago by the company that sold it. I can't imagine that six years later that magnificent 3D scanned specimen is languishing at FMNH ... and Lance Grande has not formally published it yet? If it resides in a private collection, then unfortunately it is lost to science.

[piranha]

Lance Grande has just replied: this specimen is not in the FMNH collection.  That would explain how it has mysteriously elluded any formal description.

[jpc]

The one I am referring to was found at the site in North Dakota that preserves sedimentary evidence of the KT extinction bolide impact.  I can't remember the name of the site, but when I was at the Field a few years ago, we got a tour of the lab and there was a large jacket containing at least one paddlefish and one gar from that site.  I imagine these were donated to the Field, and Lance MUST know about them.  If he was referring to the specimen in the photo above, I am pretty sure that is not the one I am talking about.  But that one is a really nice specimen and CT scan. 

[Fossildude19]

6 minutes ago, jpc said:

The one I am referring to was found at the site in North Dakota that preserves sedimentary evidence of the KT extinction bolide impact.  I can't remember the name of the site, but when I was at the Field a few years ago, we got a tour of the lab and there was a large jacket containing at least one paddlefish and one gar from that site.  I imagine these were donated to the Field, and Lance MUST know about them.  If he was referring to the specimen in the photo above, I am pretty sure that is not the one I am talking about.  But that one is a really nice specimen and CT scan. 

 

 

The Tanis site? 

 

 

Image from HERE.

 

 

[piranha]

12 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

The Tanis site?

 

The Tanis find is fairly recent ... suddenly there are two articulated specimens! Great photographic memory!

[jpc]

54 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

 

The Tanis site? 

 

 

Image from HERE.

 

 

yeah, that's the one, and that is maybe the same exact  jacket.  

[Microraptorfan]

I emailed the website apparently it was acquired by the Royal ontario museum not the field museum 3-4 years ago

[piranha]

Lance Grande has replied with additional clarification: FMNH does not have any articulated gar specimens from Hell Creek.

[jdp]

There are also some articulated gars from the Upper Cretaceous of Alberta. I'm not sure if they've been published on but they definitely exist.

[piranha]

45 minutes ago, jdp said:

There are also some articulated gars from the Upper Cretaceous of Alberta. I'm not sure if they've been published on but they definitely exist.

 

Alberta - Upper Cretaceous and Paleocene specimens from Grande 2010:

 

 

 

[piranha]

Lance Grande has replied with additional clarification:

 

FMNH does not have any articulated gars from Hell Creek in their collection.  The Tanis specimen posted above is not a gar.  It is a paddlefish and sturgeons.

 

 

***So we are back where we started with a single mysterious unpublished specimen, reportedly purchased by the ROM and awaiting formal publication (we hope!).

[jdp]

IIRC, the specimen in question was collected by Anthony Maltese at the RMDRC:

 

http://rmdrc.blogspot.com/2013/10/actractosteus-from-hell-creek.html

 

RMDRC is a pretty legit operation which works closely with museums to prioritize getting specimens into public repositories, so if they say it is at the ROM, that is trustworthy. I don't think there's anyone at the ROM who would be prioritizing work on this specimen, but my guess is that it was purchased with the intention of being part of their public displays.

[jdp]

Relevant to this thread, here is a new Cretaceous gar from Morocco:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195667121000860

 

 

[jpc]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:25 PM, jdp said:

There are also some articulated gars from the Upper Cretaceous of Alberta. I'm not sure if they've been published on but they definitely exist.

There was a huge rock backstage at the Tyrell when I was there that had numerous articulated gars in it.  At least I think that was at the Tyrell.  

edit: I just looked through my photos from my 2013 trip to the Tyrell... yes they have a boulder full of gars.  The question is are they Cretaceous?  Most likely given what they work on up there.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by jpc

[jpc]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:43 AM, piranha said:

Lance Grande has replied with additional clarification:

 

FMNH does not have any articulated gars from Hell Creek in their collection.  The Tanis specimen posted above is not a gar.  It is a paddlefish and sturgeons.

 

 

***So we are back where we started with a single mysterious unpublished specimen, reportedly purchased by the ROM and awaiting formal publication (we hope!).

I just checked with my source at the FMNH, and I was wrong... no gars, just paddlefishes and sturgeon. 

[jdp]

29 minutes ago, jpc said:

There was a huge rock backstage at the Tyrell when I was there that had numerous articulated gars in it.  At least I think that was at the Tyrell.  

edit: I just looked through my photos from my 2013 trip to the Tyrell... yes they have a boulder full of gars.  The question is are they Cretaceous?  Most likely given what they work on up there.  

I think that block is Paleocene.

[RuMert]

I believe it's a gar tooth, looks similar to modern gar teeth. But it's uncertain unlike the provenance which is 100% Middle Tithonian