Payson Arizona corals

[Wrangellian]

Some more fossils that I acquired from fellow members of the local rockhound club, a couple who spend their Winters down there (except this past Covid year). I've got the location info but not the accurate stratigraphic info nor IDs. These are from two different locations in the Payson area. According to the maps in Gem Trails of Arizona (which the couple used to find the sites), the horn corals are from a spot along a road on the way to 'Agate Mountain', and the colonial types are from Houston Mesa, "right at the top of the hill". I don't know if the two locations are the same formation, or...? (I guess they are all Naco Fm/Group(?) but more specific info is harder to find and I can see myself spending several more hours tracking it down.)

 

Agate Mtn:

 

Houston Mesa:

[Wrangellian]

No one can help me with this, or did it just get buried too quickly?

Anyone know if all the Pennsylvanian spots around Payson are Naco Formation (or is that Group?), and can the age be narrowed down from 'Pennsylvanian'? That's all I really need to know.

@DPS Ammonite ?

[DPS Ammonite]

First two photos look like Vesiculophyllum  sp. (incrassatum?) coral from the Mississippian Redwall Limestone.

 

Last photos are from the Devonian Martin Fm. Most are probably Hexagonaria except for last photo which are Thamnopora corals.

 

The beta member of the Naco Fm which contains marine limestones and shales with the best fossils is mostly Moscovian/Desmoinian Age. Some of the redbeds above the Naco may be Pennsylvanian.

[Wrangellian]

Ah, thank you. So none of these are actually Naco Fm? I should not assume anything. Do you know the locations or are you just able to tell by looking at the fossils?

Here are the maps, if it makes any difference:

The accompanying writeups contain no info about the formations/age, of course.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Wrangellian

[DPS Ammonite]

No Naco fossils in the photos. I recognize the fossils, collected them and know what formations that they are from. I have been to the Whispering Pines site, but not the Agate Mountain site.

Edited April 30, 2021 by DPS Ammonite

[Wrangellian]

OK, I can't question that, then.

Can the age be narrowed down for either of them?

BTW should I delete the maps?

Edited April 30, 2021 by Wrangellian

[DPS Ammonite]

Martin Fm. is Frasnian Age. Redwall is Middle to Late Mississippian.

Use Geolex to find more info on US formations.

 

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Geolex/UnitRefs/MartinRefs_8738.html

 

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Geolex/UnitRefs/RedwallRefs_10129.html

 

I do not need the maps. BTW, the Houston Mesa site is a misnomer. The site is actually in the Brody Hills. Good fossils on Geode Hill also.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by DPS Ammonite

[Wrangellian]

That's why I consult the Forum... the other sources I have are sometimes wrong!

Thanks again.. I was not aware of that resource.

It says the Martin is Middle Devonian.. (Frasnian is Late)

[DPS Ammonite]

1 hour ago, Wrangellian said:

It says the Martin is Middle Devonian.. (Frasnian is Late)

One member, Beckers Butte, is Middle, the rest are Frasnian.

Edited April 30, 2021 by DPS Ammonite

[Dimitar]

Agate Mtn: Cnidaria / possible conulariid .

[Wrangellian]

12 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said:

One member, Beckers Butte, is Middle, the rest are Frasnian.

Do you know which member would be exposed there at Agate Mtn.. is it not the Beckers Butte? (I was told the corals were collected about where the powerline crosses road)... Sorry for all the questions. I find it tough to find this info by searching online.

 

10 hours ago, Dimitar said:

Agate Mtn: Cnidaria / possible conulariid .

Being a horn coral it's definitely a cnidarian, but not a conulariid.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Wrangellian

[DPS Ammonite]

The Beckers Butte Member is exposed to the east in the Salt River Canyon. The Gila County geological map shows no Martin near Agate Mountain.

 

http://repository.azgs.az.gov/sites/default/files/dlio/files/nid1622/gilacounty_1959_geologicmap.pdf

 

https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Geolex/Units/BeckersButte_6774.html

 

[Wrangellian]

OK. I wasn't doubting you about Agate Mtn, or any of this stuff.. You've got a pretty good handle on Arizona fossils. I just don't know that area very well at all and it would be nice to see a map that shows all this info so I can get a clear picture of it in my mind.

Speaking of that, do you know much about the Chile Fm pet wood? I also acquired a piece that they collected from Woodruff AZ.  A geo map shows Moenkopi Fm in the spot shown on the Gem Trails map, where they told me they picked it up. Does the wood (the colorful stuff) only occur in the Chinle Fm, and if so, is it restricted to the Petrified Forest Member? Or can it also occur in other members or formations such as the Moenkopi? I guess it's more likely that the overlying Chinle eroded away from the vicinity and left chunks of pet wood lying around on Moenkopi ground.

A subject for another thread, maybe.

I was wondering if I should delete the maps I posted above to prevent lurkers from going and depleting the sites, or is there no worry about that?

[DPS Ammonite]

35 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

OK. I wasn't doubting you about Agate Mtn, or any of this stuff.. You've got a pretty good handle on Arizona fossils. I just don't know that area very well at all and it would be nice to see a map that shows all this info so I can get a clear picture of it in my mind.

Speaking of that, do you know much about the Chile Fm pet wood? I also acquired a piece that they collected from Woodruff AZ.  A geo map shows Moenkopi Fm in the spot shown on the Gem Trails map, where they told me they picked it up. Does the wood (the colorful stuff) only occur in the Chinle Fm, and if so, is it restricted to the Petrified Forest Member? Or can it also occur in other members or formations such as the Moenkopi? I guess it's more likely that the overlying Chinle eroded away from the vicinity and left chunks of pet wood lying around on Moenkopi ground.

A subject for another thread, maybe.

I was wondering if I should delete the maps I posted above to prevent lurkers from going and depleting the sites, or is there no worry about that?

 

35 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

I was wondering if I should delete the maps I posted above to prevent lurkers from going and depleting the sites, or is there no worry about that?

The Whispering Pine site has been depleted in the last few years and is a known site. It is still OK as a beginner site. 
 

I do not remember the if the write up for the Agate Mountain site mentions fossils; I will have to look at the book. I have heard that there is lots of low quality agate at the site.

 

I really don't know if all the colorful wood comes from the Chinle. Search Google Scholar and Geolex for the Chinle.

 

Just in case you have not seen it, here is my Arizona Paleontology Guide:

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/86597-arizona-paleontology-guide/

 

[Wrangellian]

The Agate Mtn writeup doesn't say anything about fossils but my friends did say they picked up the horn corals from near where the powerline crosses the road to Agate Mtn. (maybe that's not info I should divulge online)

OK, I'll be sure to check your Guide if I need more info about AZ fossils. It's been hidden in plain sight thus far!  I do have some more red corals that I acquired from someone else, with no location info, and my best guess is Riley's Canyon Utah but that may be wrong. I'll get pics and post them soon.