Sightreader Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Howdy folks, me again with more silly beginner questions... I saw this video of a vampire bat running and wondered if pterosaurs - with their crutch-like folded wings - might have moved in a similar manner? Youtube: Vampire Bat on Treadmill I also saw this video of a Panda cub running. Might synapsids like Dinocephalians or Gorgonopsids - with those weird, “inturned” arms - have moved in a similar fashion? Youtube: Panda Bear Cub Running I’m guessing the answers to both of these questions is probably “no” - I would think that even a slight difference in a single joint or in the spine or hips would totally change an animal’s gait - but I really don’t know how the anatomy of such creatures compare. Are there extant species similar to either of these extinct animals that might give us an idea of how they moved? Thanks a ton for your patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sightreader said: Are there extant species similar to either of these extinct animals that might give us an idea of how they moved? Well, for those of us animating extinct and fantasy creatures for film and TV we use references from life to inform our choices. And then there are also scientists that are reverse engineering animal motion from footprints and skeletal remains. For me an animal like this feels a lot like a modern monitor lizard. (Kmodo Dragon etc..) Some large, modern, bipedal flightless birds really haven't re-invented the wheel, so to speak, and have foot morphology that is almost identical to Oviraptorosaurs. So we can assume, and we do as animators, that the gait and movement of these dinosaurs might have mimic-ed what we see today. Taking into account size and weight etc... Not sure about Pterosaurs, but it is an interesting discussion. Most likely if I was attempting to recreate the motion I would look to bats, large flightless birds, large pelagic birds, etc ... Cheers, Brett Edited May 2, 2021 by Brett Breakin' Rocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sightreader Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 On 5/2/2021 at 2:22 PM, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: Well, for those of us animating extinct and fantasy creatures for film and TV we use references from life to inform our choices. And then there are also scientists that are reverse engineering animal motion from footprints and skeletal remains. For me an animal like this feels a lot like a modern monitor lizard. (Kmodo Dragon etc..) Some large, modern, bipedal flightless birds really haven't re-invented the wheel, so to speak, and have foot morphology that is almost identical to Oviraptorosaurs. So we can assume, and we do as animators, that the gait and movement of these dinosaurs might have mimic-ed what we see today. Taking into account size and weight etc... Not sure about Pterosaurs, but it is an interesting discussion. Most likely if I was attempting to recreate the motion I would look to bats, large flightless birds, large pelagic birds, etc ... Cheers, Brett Forgive me while I take a moment to totally geek out reveling in all this animation work! (Fanboy mode on) (Fanboy mode off… mostly) Ok, I think I might have enough wits left to try to put a few thoughts in. Interesting about lizards and synapsids. Did guys like Dinocephalians and Gorgonopsids have enough lateral mobility in their spines to produce the amount of undulating motion we see in Komodo Dragons? Also, some of those guys seem a lot more upright than lizards - the front limbs being longer - how does that affect the characteristic undulating walk of lizards? Definitely not hard to visualize how guys like velociraptors moved with all these extant emus and ostriches running around, so I’m thinking it’s not really an extinct gait: the only real mystery there is what happens when they get really massive. I found the T-rexs of Walking with Dinosaurs rather disappointing in that regard - they looked like they were tiptoeing, which kinda ruined the illusion of size. Much more convincing to me was the Jurassic Park T-rex which had a bit of a waddle - its center of gravity was so massive that it starts tipping over the second it lifts a foot and can only push its center back up when both feet get back to the ground. I had never seen a bat run before I saw that vampire bat video. Looks like he has to kinda vault over his outsized, crutch-like arms. The thing is, did pterosaurs have similar joint mobility to these bats or might that vampire bat gallop not be feasible for pterosaurs? Most representations try to have them move on their hind legs like birds rather than a truly quadrupedal gait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I'll just note there are numerous trackways of various synapsids and they don't support either that sort of galloping/crutching gait. I think the same applies to pterosaurs, for which there are a few trackways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sightreader Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, jdp said: I'll just note there are numerous trackways of various synapsids and they don't support either that sort of galloping/crutching gait. I think the same applies to pterosaurs, for which there are a few trackways Oh, sorry about the confusion: the reference to a galloping Vampire Bat gait was meant ONLY for the Pterosaurs (see below) not Synapsids! For Synapsids, I was speculating they might be similar to the gait of Panda Bears (not Vampire Bats). The previous reply suggested instead a more serpentine, lizard-like gait for the Synapsids. What do the trackways suggest? Thanks! Edited May 4, 2021 by Sightreader Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 For therapsids, the abundant track record seems to suggest some amount of lateral flexion in animals with a semi-erect stance. So, not quite the panda example. There is also probably some variation across therapsids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sightreader Posted May 6, 2021 Author Share Posted May 6, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 6:54 PM, jdp said: For therapsids, the abundant track record seems to suggest some amount of lateral flexion in animals with a semi-erect stance. So, not quite the panda example. There is also probably some variation across therapsids. Excellent! A strange question… do you think they looked graceful when they moved? Some of these synapsids seem to have a stubbier spines than Komodo dragons and quite a few seem to have a much more upright stance; will twisting the spine allow the forelimbs from these animals to extend far enough forward to move at speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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