The sharp end of my collection

[Gareth_]

Hey all... I thought I'd put up some pics of my fossil collection - well, the sharp end of it. I have a few other fossils (fish, ammonite etc) but for now, I'll put up my fossil teeth. I started collecting fossils almost by accident a few years ago, I was in a small rock and mineral shop, in a small town 2 hours from home, this shop had a small selection of fossils too and the Otodus teeth they had in stock grabbed my attention, I bought one and my collection has been growing ever since. The Otodus obliquus teeth below were my first and second fossil purchase

 

 

[Gareth_]

From that same shop I bought a Mosasaur tooth in original matrix and I recently added to my Mosasaur collection with a tooth found at a local market (approx 61mm long). I've been told it is likely in the Halisaurinae subfamily. 

  

  

[Gareth_]

I have 2 more Otodus obliquus teeth (71.1mm & 87.4mm)

 

 

 

  

    

 

[Gareth_]

I have 2 pristine Palaeocarcharodon orientalis teeth

 

 

 

 

 

[Gareth_]

.....and of course, Carcharocles (or Otodus) megalodon

I bought the smaller one a good 2+ years ago, when I held that in my hands for the first time I was in complete awe... that tooth, built thick, sharp, robust and serrated used to belong to a terrifying animal! When I received my larger tooth, only 29mm larger on the slant height, I was in awe at how much more physical tooth there was for a fairly small increase in height (and the pic with the smaller one on the larger one perfectly illustrates that)

 

 

 

  

  

[Gareth_]

A few months ago I talked to the guy that has supplied some of my fossils.... I wanted a dinosaur tooth, Dinosaurs have been an interest of mine since the 1980's when I was a youngin so a dinosaur fossil seemed appropriate! I initially wanted a Spinosaurus tooth and he found one around 5" long but he also suggested a Carcharodontosaurus tooth. A dinosaur named after a shark seemed very appropriate (given what you see above) so I got that

 

 

 

 

[Gareth_]

I have my fossils, along with a few others items displayed in a glass, mirror backed cabinet with LED lighting

I've tried to take pics of the cabinet but the mirror and lighting make it very hard to take a good shot.... but this is how I display my fossils within the cabinet.

I also have 2 shark jaws, both quite old... the larger one I believe is about 70 years old.

The large one is from a Mako and (for scale) my thigh just fits in it.

The smaller one is from a Tiger shark

 

 

 

 

[Praefectus]

Great collection! 

 

1 hour ago, Gareth_ said:

From that same shop I bought a Mosasaur tooth in original matrix and I recently added to my Mosasaur collection with a tooth found at a local market (approx 61mm long). I've been told it is likely in the Halisaurinae subfamily. 

 

Halisaurine teeth are sharp and needle-like to catch and hold prey. This tooth is from Prognathodon anceps, a larger mosasaur that used its teeth for biting and crushing. 

 

1 hour ago, Gareth_ said:

Now this is an interesting tooth. Morphology is very similar to the mosasaur Mosasaurus hoffmannii. Perhaps @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon could confirm that identification. 

[Gareth_]

6 minutes ago, Praefectus said:

Great collection! 

 

Halisaurine teeth are sharp and needle-like to catch and hold prey. This tooth is from Prognathodon anceps, a larger mosasaur that used its teeth for biting and crushing. 

 

Now this is an interesting tooth. Morphology is very similar to the mosasaur Mosasaurus hoffmannii. Perhaps @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon could confirm that identification. 

Thanks for the comments!

I was referring to the one with the green background that could be Halisauriinae, but your second comment suggests that could be wrong anyway! But hey, I'm learning so it's all good :D

[Ludwigia]

Well you certainly are off to a good start with these Moroccan treasures. And nicely displayed as well. Thanks for sharing.

[Coco]

Sorry, but I think your smaller shark jaw could be a Carcharhinus, not a Galeocerdo. But I need close-up, I can't see very well.

 

Coco

Edited May 7, 2021 by Coco

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Beautiful collection, and an original way of presentation too! I really like how those Otodus teeth look matrix-free! As Ludwigia said, you're definitely off to a good start to your collection!

 

6 hours ago, Praefectus said:

Halisaurine teeth are sharp and needle-like to catch and hold prey. This tooth is from Prognathodon anceps, a larger mosasaur that used its teeth for biting and crushing.

 

As @Praefectus said, your bulkier tooth is indeed a prognathodontid, although I'd call it Prognathodon giganteus following Bardet et al. (2014):

 

 

The above also shows the morphology of halisaurine teeth (A), which are much smaller than either of your teeth and more recurved - Halisaurus were very small and basal mosasaurs. Two species are known from the Moroccan phosphates: H. arambourgi and H. cf. walkeri, with the latter being the rarer and the former being more gracile. Below are a couple more halisaurine teeth for comparison (not all from Morocco):

 

Halisaurus arambourgi premaxilla/snout fragment with the two anterior-most teeth in place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Halisaurus arambourgi rooted tooth, Oued Zem

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Halisaurus cf. walkeri, Ouled Abdoun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Halisaurus sp. from Jordan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Halisaurine Eonatator sternbergi from the Smoky Hills Chalk, Niobara Formation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case, as I hope will be clear, neither of your teeth is halisaurine, with the second one being much too big and not recurved enough...

 

Quote

Now this is an interesting tooth. Morphology is very similar to the mosasaur Mosasaurus hoffmannii. Perhaps @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon could confirm that identification. 

 

It is indeed a beautiful and rare tooth, but I wouldn't call it M. hoffmanni. Rather, I believe it to be a Moroccan tylosaurine tooth for the facts that it's laterally compressed when compared to teeth of the Mosasaurus-genus and curves mesiodistally (in the same direction as the midline of the tooth) rather than  labiolingually (crossing the midline of the tooth). And while it's not clear whether the base of the tooth has tertiary striae (the photographs are not clear enough), it looks like there is some ornamentation in that part of the tooth. Also, as we've seen, the tertiary striae may be absent (which could be a result of wear, as can be an issue when identifying metriorhynchid crocodile teeth).

Edited May 7, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

[Gareth_]

9 hours ago, Coco said:

Sorry, but I think your smaller shark jaw could be a Charcharhinus, not a Galeocerdo. But I need close-up, I can't see very well.

 

Coco

 

Not the clearest pics sorry, they were taken from my phone

 

[Gareth_]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:02 AM, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Beautiful collection, and an original way of presentation too! I really like how those Otodus teeth look matrix-free! As Ludwigia said, you're definitely off to a good start to your collection!

 

 

As @Praefectus said, your bulkier tooth is indeed a prognathodontid, although I'd call it Prognathodon giganteus following Bardet et al. (2014):

 

 

The above also shows the morphology of halisaurine teeth (A), which are much smaller than either of your teeth and more recurved - Halisaurus were very small and basal mosasaurs. Two species are known from the Moroccan phosphates: H. arambourgi and H. cf. walkeri, with the latter being the rarer and the former being more gracile. Below are a couple more halisaurine teeth for comparison (not all from Morocco):

 

 

 

 

Wow! You are a fountain of knowledge. Thank you for the input, I've actually never tried to narrow down the bulkier tooth to a subfamily or genus, I just appreciated it for what it was but it's better knowing more about it.

It's actually really cool knowing the taller tooth (green background) is rare, it was a spontaneous purchase at a market by a lady selling crystals.... it was cheap too!

I actually made contact with her during the week and drove 30 mins to look at the other mosasaur teeth she had for sale on that day (I had very limited time at that market)..... I'll attach some pics, your thoughts would be appreciated (I love the shorter one, although broken, it's been glued back together quite well)

 

 

    

    

    

[ThePhysicist]

Nice fossils, photography, and interesting presentation! 

 

I agree with @Coco on the smaller shark jaw, it's Carcharhinus sp., I'm thinking silky shark (C. falciformis)?

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:40 PM, Gareth_ said:

Wow! You are a fountain of knowledge. Thank you for the input, I've actually never tried to narrow down the bulkier tooth to a subfamily or genus, I just appreciated it for what it was but it's better knowing more about it.

 

No worries, that why we're here

 

Quote

It's actually really cool knowing the taller tooth (green background) is rare, it was a spontaneous purchase at a market by a lady selling crystals.... it was cheap too!

I actually made contact with her during the week and drove 30 mins to look at the other mosasaur teeth she had for sale on that day (I had very limited time at that market)..... I'll attach some pics, your thoughts would be appreciated (I love the shorter one, although broken, it's been glued back together quite well)

 

 

 

 

This is certainly another pair of nice teeth, even if they both belong to the most common prognathodontid species found in Morocco! I'd call them both P. giganteus from my experience, although the morphology of the top-most/first tooth conforms more with Bardet et al. (2014)'s Prognathodon nov. sp., which seems to correspond most to P. anceps as defined here. However, this is where I get confused between these two prognathodontid species, as the teeth of both species seem very similar morphologically (see below images):

 

Prognathodon (Mosasaurus) cf. anceps sensu Arambourg, figure 8 from Machalski et al., 2003. Campanian and Maastrichtian mosasaurid reptiles from central Poland

 

(some beautiful images of M. hoffmanni teeth in this publication too, @Praefectus)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mosasaurus (Leiodon) cf. anceps, plate XXXVIII from Arambourg, 1952. Les vertébrés fossiles des gisements de phosphates (Maroc - Algérie - Tunisie)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prognathodon giganteus, figure 40 from Lingham-Soliar & Nolf, 1989. The mosasaur Prognathodon (Reptilia, Mosasauridae) from the Upper Cretaceous of Belgium

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amarabourg (ibid., p. 280-281) describes the teeth of Mosasaurus cf. anceps as follows:

Quote

Ces dents appartiennent, suivant leur position sur les mâchoires, á divers types morphologiques; mais toutes sont, en général, trapues et robustes; certaines peuvent atteindre une très grande taille.

Les dents de la région symphysaire sont moins trapues que les suivantes; elles sont légèrement arquées en arrière suivant l'axe de la série dentaire; leur section, presque circulaire au niveau du collet, devient un peu ovale et irrégulière en se repprochant de la pointe. Le bord antérieur de la couronne porte une carène verticale bien marguée dans toute sa hauteur; une seconde carène, beaucoup plus obtuse naît au bord latéral externe mais ne s'étend pas, vers la bas, au delá du premier tiers de la hauteur; il en résulte, dans la partie supérieure de la dent, une section asymétrique.

Les dents latérales ont une couronne conique, un peu comprimée, et sont légèrement recourbées vers la commissure et vers le côté lingual; elles portent à chaque bord, symphysaire et commissural, une arête tranchante, finement crénelée, qui s'étend sur toute la hauteur. Cette arête sépare entre elles les faces labiale et linguale qui sont toutes deux fortement convexes; toutefois la face linguale des premières dents latérales l'est un peu plus que la face labiale. Leur section à la base est sensiblement circulaire; elle devient légèrement elliptique et anguleuse en se rapprochant de la pointe. Enfin, les dents tout á fair latérales sont comprimées avec une section symétrique nettement elliptique; leurs deux carènes sont fortement détachées.

 

Or, translated (mine):

Quote

These teeth belong to different morphological types according to their position along the jaw. However, all are generally stocky and robust. Some can reach a very large size.

The teeth of the symphyseal region are less stocky than the ones further along the jaw. They arch back slightly along the axis of the dental series and their cross-section, almost circular at the neck, becomes somewhat oval and irregular towards the apex. The anterior edge of the crown has a well-defined carina along its full apicobasal height. A second, more obtuse carina arises at the outer lateral edge but does not extend downwards past the first third of the height. This results in an asymmetrical section in the upper part of the tooth.

The lateral teeth have a conical crown which is somewhat compressed and curves slightly lingually and towards the commissure. They bear finely crenellated cutting edges that extend the full apicobasal height, both symphyseally and commissurally. This ridge separates labial and lingual surfaces, both of which are strongly convex. However, the lingual face of anterior lateral teeth is slightly more so than the labial face. The cross-section, circular at the base, becomes slightly elliptical and angular as it approaches the tooth apex. Lastly, the fully lateral teeth are compressed with a clearly elliptical symmetrical cross-section. Their two carinae are strongly detached.

 

Machalski et al. (ibid., p. 404-405) summarize this by stating

Quote

specimen ZPAL R. 9/3, a lateral tooth, measures 85.8 mm in height (inclusive of root), and shows well-developed anterior and posterior carinae, both with minute serrations. In cross section it is elliptical, with buccal and lingual surfaces subequal, the latter more broadly rounded. Facetting is not well developed, but is more clearly seen on the lingual surface. The crown is faintly posteriorly recurved, and more strongly so lingually. Enamel beading is present, but poorly developed. Specimen ZPAL R. 9/4 is 45 mm in height and has a subcircular cross section, with a more broadly rounded lingual surface, well-developed anterior and posterior carinae with minute serrations, faint facets on both surfaces, and depressed areas parallel to both carinae, along the entire crown height. Enamel beading is well developed.

 

In comparison, Lingham-Soliar & Nolf (ibid., p. 166-167) describe the teeth of Prognathodon giganteus as follows:

Quote

The teeth of P. giganteus are large, quite powerful in appearance and generally triangular in shape with somewhat posteriorly recurved tips. They are bicarinate with subequal buccal and lingual surfaces. In horizontal cross-section the tooth is subcircular and bears a close resemblance to Williston's (1897) cross-section of a tooth of P. overtoni. The teeth appear to be more or less uniform in size along most of the jaw ramus although this assessment is an inference based on an incomplete number of preserved teeth and tooth bases of the maxillae and dentaries.
Tooth surfaces are enamelled and appear to be covered in very fine vertical striae. This may on the other hand be an artifact of preservation caused by cracking of the enamel. Russell (1970, p. 374) on the other hand describes the enamel in P. giganteus as smooth but he may have based his statement on Dollo's (1904, p. 213) brief comment to that effect. Kues et al. (1985) also mention fine anastomosing striae in teeth which, however, are questionably referred to Prognathodon.

 

Overall, reading over all the slight differences in termonology used, the descriptions and images given for the teeth of both P. giganteus and P. anceps seem rather similar. However, Arambourg's definition of 'Mosasaurus' cf. anceps dates to 1952, whereas Dollo defined his P. giganteus in 1904. This would seem to suggest that P. giganteus might be the senior synonym. As Arambourg based his definition on Owen's 1841 description of Leiodon anceps, this seniority may be misleading, however, with P. anceps actually being the senior. Another reason to may be given more credence to the naming of P. anceps is that, according to Wikipedia "Prognathodon giganteus, named by Dollo in 1904, is one of species with the most brief descriptions, apparently only intended to provide a name for the skeleton of the mosasaur for exhibition in the museum hall". To my knowledge, the two prognathodontid species haven't ever been synonymized, however.

Edited May 8, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

[Gareth_]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:05 AM, ThePhysicist said:

Nice fossils, photography, and interesting presentation! 

 

I agree with @Coco on the smaller shark jaw, it's Carcharhinus sp., I'm thinking silky shark (C. falciformis)?

It looks like you and Coco are correct! That's why they say "a little knowledge is dangerous" (on my part), at a glance the Silky and Tiger teeth do look similar but they are very different!

May I ask, what was it about the jaw that made you correctly identify it?

Regardless of the species, it's still a cool piece for display - but I really only bought it to "practice" on for prepping a jaw, the larger Mako jaw I have needs work to expose all of the teeth under the gums, make it white again and to reset the jaw to a better shape. A project for one day!

Edited May 9, 2021 by Gareth_

[Gareth_]

pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon - I'm almost speechless, you're a human encyclopedia. Many thanks for the input 

I'll be updating this thread (hopefully tomorrow) when some more goodies arrive in the post

Edited May 9, 2021 by Gareth_

[ThePhysicist]

5 hours ago, Gareth_ said:

May I ask, what was it about the jaw that made you correctly identify it?

Well at first glance, the jaw seemed small and the teeth not as proportionally large and robust. Identification most solidly comes from the teeth; as you noticed, they are different if you study them for a bit. 

[Coco]

10 hours ago, Gareth_ said:

May I ask, what was it about the jaw that made you correctly identify it?

 

The size and regularity of the lower teeth. And then the current Carcharhinus make up the genus with the largest number of species, more than 30.

 

I have number of current shark jaws and rays in collection.

 

Coco

[PrehistoricWonders]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:18 AM, Gareth_ said:

.....and of course, Carcharocles (or Otodus) megalodon

I bought the smaller one a good 2+ years ago, when I held that in my hands for the first time I was in complete awe... that tooth, built thick, sharp, robust and serrated used to belong to a terrifying animal! When I received my larger tooth, only 29mm larger on the slant height, I was in awe at how much more physical tooth there was for a fairly small increase in height (and the pic with the smaller one on the larger one perfectly illustrates that)

 

 

 

  

  

snarge, those megs are very nice. Much higher quality than I was expecting, most rock shops I’ve been to don’t have many super high quality megs, mostly just ledge teeth. 

[Praefectus]

On 5/8/2021 at 3:48 AM, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

No worries, that why we're here

 

 

This is certainly another pair of nice teeth, even if they both belong to the most common prognathodontid species found in Morocco! I'd call them both P. giganteus from my experience, although the morphology of the top-most/first tooth conforms more with Bardet et al. (2014)'s Prognathodon nov. sp., which seems to correspond most to P. anceps as defined here. However, this is where I get confused between these two prognathodontid species, as the teeth of both species seem very similar morphologically (see below images):

 

Prognathodon (Mosasaurus) cf. anceps sensu Arambourg, figure 8 from Machalski et al., 2003. Campanian and Maastrichtian mosasaurid reptiles from central Poland

 

(some beautiful images of M. hoffmanni teeth in this publication too, @Praefectus)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mosasaurus (Leiodon) cf. anceps, plate XXXVIII from Arambourg, 1952. Les vertébrés fossiles des gisements de phosphates (Maroc - Algérie - Tunisie)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prognathodon giganteus, figure 40 from Lingham-Soliar & Nolf, 1989. The mosasaur Prognathodon (Reptilia, Mosasauridae) from the Upper Cretaceous of Belgium

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amarabourg (ibid., p. 280-281) describes the teeth of Mosasaurus cf. anceps as follows:

 

Or, translated (mine):

 

Machalski et al. (ibid., p. 404-405) summarize this by stating

 

In comparison, Lingham-Soliar & Nolf (ibid., p. 166-167) describe the teeth of Prognathodon giganteus as follows:

 

Overall, reading over all the slight differences in termonology used, the descriptions and images given for the teeth of both P. giganteus and P. anceps seem rather similar. However, Arambourg's definition of 'Mosasaurus' cf. anceps dates to 1952, whereas Dollo defined his P. giganteus in 1904. This would seem to suggest that P. giganteus might be the senior synonym. As Arambourg based his definition on Owen's 1841 description of Leiodon anceps, this seniority may be misleading, however, with P. anceps actually being the senior. Another reason to may be given more credence to the naming of P. anceps is that, according to Wikipedia "Prognathodon giganteus, named by Dollo in 1904, is one of species with the most brief descriptions, apparently only intended to provide a name for the skeleton of the mosasaur for exhibition in the museum hall". To my knowledge, the two prognathodontid species haven't ever been synonymized, however.

 

Very interesting and informative post. Haha, I'm still confusing Mosasaurus and Tylosaurus. I'll figure out the differences eventually. Thanks for the correction.

 

I think the Prognathodon anceps vs. Prognathodon giganteus discussion is worthy of its own topic so I created one with your comment copied for reference. 

 

 

[Gareth_]

Well.... this seems to be a problem. I can't stop adding to my collection! 

I've just received in the post -

Rooted Hainosaurus tooth

Zafarasaura tooth

Hemipristis tooth

Enchodus caudal fin (my favourite in this lot!)

Otodus vertebra 

I'll also put up some pics of how I display what I have  - I have colour changing LED strip lighting around the top of the cabinet, the reflections from literally every surface and lack of 3D in pictures really doesn't do it all justice. Middle shelf on the right has tektites and a meteorite slice. The bottom has just a random assortment of crystals/minerals - one I found as a kid, others more recently, some are gifts from my partner, some I bought cos they just look cool. The other side has my collection of silver Oz and 1/2 Oz coins. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

  

[Gareth_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

.....and the cabinet

 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Nice additions! Just the rooted mosasaur tooth, not sure it's tylosaurine, as those curve mesiodistally in the upper third of the tooth, rather than mediolingually, as your tooth does. Also, please note that there's some discussion on whether the Moroccan tylosaurine (which remains undescribed and unacknowledged) belongs to the genus Hainosaurus. I believe it might, but, in that case, the species would likely be a new one, and not H. bernardi. I rather think your specimen falls within the range of morphotypes defined for P. anceps.

Edited May 24, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon