Kem Kem Plesiosaur tooth?

[FF7_Yuffie]

Hi,

 

I am interested in this tooth---sold as Plesiosaur tooth from the Kem Kem Beds. First time I've seen one from Kem Kem sold before, but I see someone bought one recently in the "mailbox score" thread, but it looks different--lighter colored preservation.

 

Anyone know if this is actually from Kem Kem going by the matrix and preservation and not from Ouled Abdoun with just the wrong formation listed?

 

It is 5CM long.  Also the tip---just repaired, or compositied? I'm a bit concerned that the top of the tip seems a little bit wider than the middle. But it could just be a bodged repair.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Praefectus]

Hello. This looks like a Zarafasaura oceanis tooth from the Ouled Abdoun basin, not Kem Kem. The tip was broken and appears to have been repaired with glue. I think the three glued sections are all original fossil from the same tooth. The apparent change in width is probably due to incorrectly gluing the parts back together. 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Hi Jack,

 

I fully agree with Trevor in this being Z. oceanis. Probably the seller just got their Khouribga mixed up with their Kem Kem, but preservation is consistent with what to expect from Moroccan phosphate material. The various parts of the tooth do indeed appear to belong together, but not very well glued: there are definitely better examples to be found.

 

As to Kem Kem plesiosaur material: though it is true that plesiosaurs have been recovered from the Kem Kem, their remains are very rare. In fact, @Jaimin013's specimen is the first I've seen in full glory (even if it's the second I've heard off). I've never come across them on the open market, though, as I too would love to add one of them to my collection. The reason why they are so rare, though, is that they were likely migratory in the waterways that formed the Kem Kem deposits, although other plesiosaur species from the UK are known to have inhabited brackish mangroves and fresh water. Their remains, however, are very rare too.

[Troodon]

Yep the matrix is from the Ouled Abdoun Basin.  Nicer ones are out there without the poor repair work.

 

[FF7_Yuffie]

Thanks for taking a look. I have a couple (matrix free) from Ouled Abdoun. The possibility of this been a Kem Kem one is what interested me.

 

Pity its mislabelled.

 

Cheers

[Runner64]

On 5/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

As to Kem Kem plesiosaur material: though it is true that plesiosaurs have been recovered from the Kem Kem, their remains are very rare. In fact, @Jaimin013's specimen is the first I've seen in full glory (even if it's the second I've heard off). I've never come across them on the open market, though, as I too would love to add one of them to my collection. The reason why they are so rare, though, is that they were likely migratory in the waterways that formed the Kem Kem deposits, although other plesiosaur species from the UK are known to have inhabited brackish mangroves and fresh water. Their remains, however, are very rare too.

@Troodon @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odonHi, here is a tooth I have from the Kem Kem beds. Always had it labeled as unknown but after you mentioning marine reptiles have been found in the Kem Kem, was curious if it could be one?

Has a circular cross section, striations on lingual side.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

  

18 minutes ago, Runner64 said:

Hi, here is a tooth I have from the Kem Kem beds. Always had it labeled as unknown but after you mentioning marine reptiles have been found in the Kem Kem, was curious if it could be one?

Has a circular cross section, striations on lingual side.

 

Hard to say for sure for the matrix still covering the tooth, but the type of striations seem compatible with what has been found in terms of plesiosaur/polycotylid teeth from the Kem Kem, as do the fact that the striations are located only on the lingual side, the circular cross-section and narrow, curved shape. I think this is a good candidate, but can't be entirely sure from photographs alone. Have a look at @Jaimin013's specimen for comparison:

 

Quote

 

 

Still hoping to obtain one of these myself one day... How did you bump into it? As I understand it's far from common to come across them...

Edited July 18, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

[Runner64]

10 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Have a look at @Jaimin013's specimen for comparison.

 

Yes @Jaimin013’s tooth is what actually caught my attention about this tooth I have. Albeit, mine will need a good cleaning one day.

 

11 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

Still hoping to obtain one of these myself one day... How did you bump into it? As I understand it's far from common to come across them...

Pure luck. Was at a small rock shop in Colorado last year and they had a bowl of assorted Kem Kem fossil teeth for sale at a small, fixed price. Bought a couple that I thought looked interesting and this one just happened to have the right characteristics.

[Troodon]

What makes you think its KK not from the Ouled Abdoun Basin.   Color of matrix looks more like the latter 

[Runner64]

7 minutes ago, Troodon said:

What makes you think its KK not from the Ouled Abdoun Basin.   Color of matrix looks more like the latter 

Came labeled as being from the Kem Kem Beds. Sorry in photos I posted it came out quite tan/gray/brown. Here it is in more natural lighting showing orange/red matrix and preservation:

 

Also, matrix compares well with a couple other teeth I have. Carch tooth for comparison:

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

9 minutes ago, Runner64 said:

Pure luck. Was at a small rock shop in Colorado last year and they had a bowl of assorted Kem Kem fossil teeth for sale at a small, fixed price. Bought a couple that I thought looked interesting and this one just happened to have the right characteristics.

 

Yeah, I was afraid I might need to start just checking random bins of unclassified Kem Kem teeth

 

7 minutes ago, Troodon said:

What makes you think its KK not from the Ouled Abdoun Basin.   Color of matrix looks more like the latter 

 

Valid question, especially for a tooth from an unsorted collection... If Ouled Abdoun, however, I haven't seen this particular morphology from that location either, though I understand that some pterosaurs had teeth bearing striae. Whatever the case may be (and in comparing with the Carcharodontosaurus-tooth I'd say Kem Kem does seem like a reasonable option), the morphology of the tooth is either leptocleidid or polycotylid.

[Runner64]

9 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

Yeah, I was afraid I might need to start just checking random bins of unclassified Kem Kem teeth

 

 

Valid question, especially for a tooth from an unsorted collection... If Ouled Abdoun, however, I haven't seen this particular morphology from that location either, though I understand that some pterosaurs had teeth bearing striae. Whatever the case may be (and in comparing with the Carcharodontosaurus-tooth I'd say Kem Kem does seem like a reasonable option), the morphology of the tooth is either leptocleidid or polycotylid.

Yes but checking random bins of unidentified bits is how you make the most interesting finds  Hopefully in the future I can work on removing the matrix so I can provide some clearer photos.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

1 minute ago, Runner64 said:

Yes but checking random bins of unidentified bits is how you make the most interesting finds

 

True, and I have done so in the past. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of rock shops around my area, and the Sainte Marie-aux-Mines fair, where I would normally get my best and most interesting fossils, hasn't been able to take place for two years in a row now...

[Runner64]

3 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

 

True, and I have done so in the past. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of rock shops around my area, and the Sainte Marie-aux-Mines fair, where I would normally get my best and most interesting fossils, hasn't been able to take place for two years in a row now...

Yes I would imagine going to fossil shows would be the best way to find them.  I haven't been to the Tucson show before but I hear that there is quite a large amount of Moroccan dealers that attend.  Hopefully I can make it one day...