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Rugose Coral


Lorney

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I found a rugose coral today and I also found another piece that looks similar but doesn’t have the rugose shape. Can you tell me if it is a rugose coral piece as well of possibly something different. Also found a piece of baculite not too far away. 
These were found in southern Alberta in the Bearpaw Formation I believe. 
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The pictures below are of the rugose coral I found near by. 
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Nice specimens, well-preserved. Since the Bearpaw is Cretaceous there wouldn't be any Rugose corals there but it is some kind of coral. I'll let someone familiar with the local fauna give them a name.

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1 hour ago, Lorney said:

These were found in southern Alberta in the Bearpaw Formation I believe. 

I tend to think this is a rugose. The issue being exactly where it was, or why it was there.

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Could these have been transported downstream from the Paleozoic strata in the Rockies down to the Bearpaw area?

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I thought I was finally right in identifying something. Oh well lots to learn. Thanks for your input. I found these along the Bow River near some  pits that were dug years ago. They were laying on the surface. I am not sure how deep the pits are so maybe they are very deep and possibly into another formation. Not sure if there is another marine formation below the Bearpaw. I also found this piece of baculite not far from the coral. 
FBB2B5F3-807F-4B42-AE76-12CAD4A51F75.thumb.jpeg.bae3308d652a6379b7db30d3aacfef26.jpeg43DFB0E9-8B9A-4216-A0BC-85EDF4A2D5C5.thumb.jpeg.c54395e64fe11e91021d3c6f6deb89f1.jpeg

2 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

Could these have been transported downstream from the Paleozoic strata in the Rockies down to the Bearpaw area?

I guess anything is possible. It was not found in the river but higher up in a area where spoils were dumped from pits. The area is probably 300 km from the Rocky Mountains as the crow flies. 

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I'd also think Rugose.

 

6 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

Could these have been transported downstream from the Paleozoic strata in the Rockies down to the Bearpaw area?

Possibly. Some kind of relic material, washdown, or glacial erratic is likely. I frequently find Paleozoic fossils in outcrops of the Pierre Shale (Bearpaw) in North Dakota. It's certainly not uncommon.

 

That is a very nice Baculite section by the way.

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25 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I tend to think this is a rugose. The issue being exactly where it was, or why it was there.

If this was in the Cretaceous of Texas I would say it was  either Trochocyathus sp. or a button coral like Micrabracia roltilie which are sometimes called Rugose corals but aren't

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8 minutes ago, BobWill said:

If this was in the Cretaceous of Texas I would say it was  either Trochocyathus sp. or a button coral like Micrabracia roltilie which are sometimes called Rugose corals but aren't

I'd guess Micrabacia species are found in the Bearpaw of Alberta. They're found in the Pierre Shale here and if I recall correctly the Bearpaw of Montana. That said, I've never known the Micrabacia species here to be so large or inflated.

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I agree, I don't think we've ruled out rugose (Paleozoic) corals. If they were dug out of the unconsolidated river sediments (they appear to be water-abraded as if transported some ways by the river), they could have originated in any of the fossiliferous formations upstream from there. Anyone have a geo map of the area handy?

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40 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

Could these have been transported downstream from the Paleozoic strata in the Rockies down to the Bearpaw area?

Sure looks like a roller.

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10 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

I agree, I don't think we've ruled out rugose (Paleozoic) corals. If they were dug out of the unconsolidated river sediments (they appear to be water-abraded as if transported some ways by the river), they could have originated in any of the fossiliferous formations upstream from there. Anyone have a geo map of the area handy?

I agree that we shouldn't rule out anything. Someone who studies corals could probably help us learn what characters to look for to make the distinction if any of you know that person. I only know of one graduate student who has studied Pennsylvanian rugose corals but she may not have any experience with similar Cretaceous forms. I will try to find a way to contact her and send a link to this thread.

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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I am still learning and appreciate hearing all the ideas. Judging by where I found it I would think it would have been transported there a very long time ago and I am pretty lucky to have even found it. Any thoughts on the piece in the first pics. Really looks like coral to me as well. Maybe too worn to identify?

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In the interest of mapping, how far south we talking? South of Edmonton or South of Calgary?

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4 hours ago, Lorney said:

Any thoughts on the piece in the first pics.

It looks like the center of a rugose coral to me. ' not sure what the cylinder like shape is called.

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6 hours ago, BobWill said:

I agree that we shouldn't rule out anything. Someone who studies corals could probably help us learn what characters to look for to make the distinction if any of you know that person. I only know of one graduate student who has studied Pennsylvanian rugose corals but she may not have any experience with similar Cretaceous forms. I will try to find a way to contact her and send a link to this thread.

While you're at it, could you send her a link to my red horn corals thread?  :rolleyes:

 

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Rugose it is! I got this very useful description of how to make the distinction between those and Mesozoic forms from Dr. Benjamin Neuman:

 

"The top coral is a bit small to tell, but the second looks pretty rugose to me, which would make it Paleozoic - I see what looks like a cardinal and counter fossula, and the pattern of septal insertion isn't very Cretaceous looking.  Counter is roughly at the top of the third image, cardinal [typo corrected] is just left of the bottom.   

 

With rugose corals, the new septa emerge from four spots and move along both sides like a bilaterally symmetric conveyor belt, so you get stretches with lots that look similar in a row and the only short septa are either side of cardinal, as here.  Post-paleozoic scleractinian corals have a pattern where they start with 6 septa, then insert smaller (newer, really) septa between those, then again between each septum, and so on - you expect a pattern big-medium-small-medium-big from the Mesozoic onward, and I definitely don't see that here.

 

If I'm reading the coral right, it might be something like Bifossularia, from the Mississippian - something with a thin layer of dissepiments, a very short cardinal protoseptum and a somewhat shortened counter protoseptum.  Anyway, that's how it looks to me - the really diagnostic parts at the pointy end are missing from both."   

Edited by BobWill
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Wow. That’s a lot to take in. I will do some research to try and understand all the things you are talking about. Thank you for taking the time to educate. 

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1 hour ago, Lorney said:

Wow. That’s a lot to take in.

Thus my "tend to think" covers a lot of words. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/11/2021 at 10:53 PM, Lorney said:

I thought I was finally right in identifying something. Oh well lots to learn. Thanks for your input. I found these along the Bow River near some  pits that were dug years ago. They were laying on the surface. I am not sure how deep the pits are so maybe they are very deep and possibly into another formation. Not sure if there is another marine formation below the Bearpaw. I also found this piece of baculite not far from the coral. 
FBB2B5F3-807F-4B42-AE76-12CAD4A51F75.thumb.jpeg.bae3308d652a6379b7db30d3aacfef26.jpeg43DFB0E9-8B9A-4216-A0BC-85EDF4A2D5C5.thumb.jpeg.c54395e64fe11e91021d3c6f6deb89f1.jpeg

I guess anything is possible. It was not found in the river but higher up in a area where spoils were dumped from pits. The area is probably 300 km from the Rocky Mountains as the crow flies. 

Woah! Is this baculite agatized??  

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Ditto, that is gorgeous!  Both peices bacculite? I've never seen anything like that.

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8 hours ago, Moth Queen said:

Woah! Is this baculite agatized??  

Yes I believe it is. First one I have ever found like that as well. I have found with calcite crystals inside but never fully agatized like this one. Here is one that I found with crystals inside.C2D779A6-153F-464D-B781-0587FA31FC68.thumb.jpeg.cf684194cfe054580f737491976d9926.jpeg

 

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Without the void to allow crystal growth the finer texture would seem to fit.

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