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Paleogenotodus


Notidanodon

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Hi guys, 

weird question here, I have done some digging but I can’t for the life of me find any decent references to this shark. I guess this is what happens when you fall into the trap of taxonomic collecting lol :) I’ve been looking at otodus recently and seeing as paleogenotodus is synonymous, it caught my attention. Last question, I wonder if anyone on this forum has actually seen a fossil of this shark? Anyway thanks for your help

Also while we’re on the subject of otodus, does anyone have any info or examples of O.limhammensis or O. Poseidoni, thanks again ;) 

Edited by will stevenson
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/16/2021 at 11:07 AM, will stevenson said:

Hi guys, 

weird question here, I have done some digging but I can’t for the life of me find any decent references to this shark. I guess this is what happens when you fall into the trap of taxonomic collecting lol :) I’ve been looking at otodus recently and seeing as paleogenotodus is synonymous, it caught my attention. Last question, I wonder if anyone on this forum has actually seen a fossil of this shark? Anyway thanks for your help

Also while we’re on the subject of otodus, does anyone have any info or examples of O.limhammensis or O. Poseidoni, thanks again ;) 

 

Hi Will,

 

I haven't seen a description of Paleogeneotodus but Herman and Van Waes (2014) synonymized it with Otodus without explanation as I recall.  It appears the interwebs haven't caught up to whatever it is.  It's another case of not everything being online.

 

O. limhamnensis (watch spelling or you won't find it) is a species erected for teeth found in the Danian of Limhamn, Sweden but the species may be present at other Danian localities in Morocco, Denmark, Russia, and New Jersey.  The Danian is a short interval - the first few million years of the Paleocene - and you need to find marine rock of that age representing an environment accommodating large sharks.  As this happens to be a time shortly after a mass extinction, teeth of large sharks are rare (anything close to or just over an inch would be a large shark tooth for the time).  I don't think I have an Otodus from the Danian of Morocco but might have a Palaeocarcharodon from then.  Presumably, most weakly-serrated Palaeocarcharodon teeth might be Danian age but some might even be late Maastrichtian and there could be some teeth like that from later in the Paleocene - sharks still bearing "primitive" teeth long after the transition.  It becomes a matter of knowing the bed the teeth came from.

 

Jess  

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On 5/30/2021 at 7:03 AM, siteseer said:

 

Hi Will,

 

I haven't seen a description of Paleogeneotodus but Herman and Van Waes (2014) synonymized it with Otodus without explanation as I recall.  It appears the interwebs haven't caught up to whatever it is.  It's another case of not everything being online.

 

O. limhamnensis (watch spelling or you won't find it) is a species erected for teeth found in the Danian of Limhamn, Sweden but the species may be present at other Danian localities in Morocco, Denmark, Russia, and New Jersey.  The Danian is a short interval - the first few million years of the Paleocene - and you need to find marine rock of that age representing an environment accommodating large sharks.  As this happens to be a time shortly after a mass extinction, teeth of large sharks are rare (anything close to or just over an inch would be a large shark tooth for the time).  I don't think I have an Otodus from the Danian of Morocco but might have a Palaeocarcharodon from then.  Presumably, most weakly-serrated Palaeocarcharodon teeth might be Danian age but some might even be late Maastrichtian and there could be some teeth like that from later in the Paleocene - sharks still bearing "primitive" teeth long after the transition.  It becomes a matter of knowing the bed the teeth came from.

 

Jess  

Thanks Jess  :) 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/30/2021 at 7:03 AM, siteseer said:

 

Hi Will,

 

I haven't seen a description of Paleogeneotodus but Herman and Van Waes (2014) synonymized it with Otodus without explanation as I recall.  It appears the interwebs haven't caught up to whatever it is.  It's another case of not everything being online.

 

O. limhamnensis (watch spelling or you won't find it) is a species erected for teeth found in the Danian of Limhamn, Sweden but the species may be present at other Danian localities in Morocco, Denmark, Russia, and New Jersey.  The Danian is a short interval - the first few million years of the Paleocene - and you need to find marine rock of that age representing an environment accommodating large sharks.  As this happens to be a time shortly after a mass extinction, teeth of large sharks are rare (anything close to or just over an inch would be a large shark tooth for the time).  I don't think I have an Otodus from the Danian of Morocco but might have a Palaeocarcharodon from then.  Presumably, most weakly-serrated Palaeocarcharodon teeth might be Danian age but some might even be late Maastrichtian and there could be some teeth like that from later in the Paleocene - sharks still bearing "primitive" teeth long after the transition.  It becomes a matter of knowing the bed the teeth came from.

 

Jess  

Hi Jess, one more question, I saw one of the khazkstan otodus teeth labelled as Otodus Poseidoni, when I would normally identify them as auriculatus teeth, are they a transitional species? Thanks again :) 

on the otodus limhamnesis again, some people doubt its validity and prefer o.naidini as the Danian species as it’s only mention was in an 1890 paper that featured just the blade of a tooth with no root, what do you think? ;) 

Edited by will stevenson
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I don't like trying to name the stages of transitional teeth.  You get yourself stuck with saying, "Well, the serrations are just a little more coarse."  You're splitting hairs

 

Yeah, with sharks you really shouldn't describe a taxon based on part of one tooth.  You want a type series with uppers and lowers, various jaw positions.  I don't really know O. naidini other than seeing figures showing it having a basic form of lateral cusplets.  I would like to know how distinct it is from O. obliquus.

 

Jess

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/21/2021 at 8:06 AM, siteseer said:

I don't like trying to name the stages of transitional teeth.  You get yourself stuck with saying, "Well, the serrations are just a little more coarse."  You're splitting hairs

 

Yeah, with sharks you really shouldn't describe a taxon based on part of one tooth.  You want a type series with uppers and lowers, various jaw positions.  I don't really know O. naidini other than seeing figures showing it having a basic form of lateral cusplets.  I would like to know how distinct it is from O. obliquus.

 

Jess

Yeah, I do sometimes wonder if they overdo it on the transitional species ;)  

anyway here’s an Otodus naidini from Alabama, this isn’t mine, it’s a friends ;) 

7A045F85-4B7C-42A0-A344-277A69BD3500.jpeg

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