What is this

[Bran]

That fracture looks more ductile than brittle, the material has plasticly deformed, cracked and even has uplifted tears/ridges. Not something that would normally occur on bone/ivory or rock. And those multitude of small cracks look like shrinkage cracks from the resin/sealant drying out over time.

[Paleontology12345]

If it is man made, what are the groves seen on the black side, and these groves , that can be felt as though.?

[Rockwood]

5 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

Am I seeing some bubbles?

In my opinion; no. They don't consistently round enough to me. To have formed in a fluid at least.

The layered inclusions, and the way they are surrounded, I think strongly argue against it being humanite. The larger shapes seem much like coiled worm tubes to me. Concretion forming in such a tube that was included with the sediment that filled a large bivalve seems to fit best to me.  Steinkern that is. Maybe a fossil.  

The material reminds me of the Pleistocene clay in southern Maine when it is dried and weathered.

 

 

[JohnJ]

In my encounters with Texas clays, handling causes significant crumbling when you see this level of fracturing.

 

@Bran makes some good observations.  This reminds me more of remnants of construction adhesive or rubberized paint.  The ridges appear to be multi-directional.  This could be the result of patterns left when last mixed or contact impressions.

[Rockwood]

These shapes cross most but not all the layers in a way that looks very slowly and incrementally accumulated to me. The view shows a structure very unlike any cement or adhesive in my opinion.

The glauconite clay found exposed in gravel pits in southern Maine is slightly pliable when fresh and wet, but quite stone like when dry.

[JohnJ]

26 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

These shapes cross most but not all the layers in a way that looks very slowly and incrementally accumulated to me.

 

Or, they could be hard blobs of whatever substance this is that we're in the container when additional material was added.

 

As previously suggested by @Bran, @Paleontology12345 could hold a small flame to it to see if it emits a chemical odor.  The fact it retains its current shape, in spite of all the fractures, suggests it is manmade refuse.  Rocks would sound differently and clays would be friable.

[Rockwood]

16 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Rocks would sound differently and clays would be friable.

Yes, but my argument is that the stuff is half way between and behaves that way.

[Lone Hunter]

I really enjoy these back and forth replies, I think I gain more knowledge from them than anything else. 

[Rockwood]

3 hours ago, JohnJ said:

In my encounters with Texas clays, handling causes significant crumbling when you see this level of fracturing.

In any other context would this not pass for a relatively  unweathered stone ?

[Lone Hunter]

This is probably way out in left field but in any way shape or form could it be dolomite or dolostone? 

[JohnJ]

7 hours ago, Rockwood said:

In any other context would this not pass for a relatively  unweathered stone ?

 

I think in most other contexts, the two hinged fractures would have easily spalled off.  We need more data from @Paleontology12345.

[JohnJ]

1 minute ago, Lone Hunter said:

This is probably way out in left field but in any way shape or form could it be dolomite or dolostone? 

 

The color might suggest it as a possibility, but being a hard stone, it would have a ring to it the OP said it does not.

[Lone Hunter]

I asked because I've seen the same holes in Dolomite and since its mined that might explain the grooves. Could one of the layers contain something that altered the sound? 

[FranzBernhard]

3 hours ago, Lone Hunter said:

I really enjoy these back and forth replies, I think I gain more knowledge from them than anything else.

Indeed! These are the most most fun, informational and intellectual challenging threads. And the solution is nearly always very simple.

Franz Bernhard

[Lone Hunter]

 

Well I'm definitely thinking on that simple level lol. Maybe the path of least resistance is better way to describe my approach sometimes.  This reminds me of watching a great game of tennis except the spectators are the winners.

[Rockwood]

1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

 

The color might suggest it as a possibility, but being a hard stone, it would have a ring to it the OP said it does not.

Who is arguing it to be a hard stone ?

I'm just giving it a shallower weathered layer, and more structural integrity than you are.

It seems to be what the post describes. 

[Mahnmut]

17 hours ago, Paleontology12345 said:

This kind of shrinking pattern is what makes me think we are not looking at a purely mineral substance. I have seen patterns like that on clay and similar stuff, but those always tended to be crumblingly fragile then, if only as deep as the fissures reach (Otherwise my collection would be bigger ). On the other hand, I have seen them on old rubber, plastics, tar and resin, where they where relatively stable mechanically. I think that is a point in favor of long organic molecules. I do not have the experience with ivory to comment on that.

Best Regards,

J

[Rockwood]

The Champlain Sea, and it's fossilized remains, was on my mind when I came across this. Just some food for thought. 

TFF 

[Fossildude19]

4 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Who is arguing it to be a hard stone ?

 

John was replying to Lone Hunter.   

[Kane]

Just so we're clear on the geology of the Muskoka area in ruling out what is generally found or not found in that very conifer-thick, lumpy-bumpy, and lovely cottage country, this geologic map of the area with the relevant legend tells a story of what naturally occurs there. Paleozoic rocks only start around Orillia at one of its northernmost points before it is all shield.

 

 

[Paleontology12345]

9 hours ago, JohnJ said:

 

I think in most other contexts, the two hinged fractures would have easily spalled off.  We need more data from @Paleontology12345.

What other info  can i provide that would be helpful?

[Paleontology12345]

 on your map..Colour code# 38, migmatite ...

 

 

Location was Along oxtounge river that drains the water from Algonquin park...it was in an area not travelled by many people..very remote..

[Paleontology12345]

5 hours ago, Mahnmut said:

This kind of shrinking pattern is what makes me think we are not looking at a purely mineral substance. I have seen patterns like that on clay and similar stuff, but those always tended to be crumblingly fragile then, if only as deep as the fissures reach (Otherwise my collection would be bigger ). On the other hand, I have seen them on old rubber, plastics, tar and resin, where they where relatively stable mechanically. I think that is a point in favor of long organic molecules. I do not have the experience with ivory to comment on that.

Best Regards,

J

There are definitely layers  of thick clay visible on the sides of the river where the banks have been eroded...( 5-10 ft down from ground level) ..I saw horizonal layers of clay that were maybe 1 ft wide..so there is lots of clay in the area

[JohnJ]

12 hours ago, JohnJ said:

 

....

 

As previously suggested by @Bran, @Paleontology12345 could hold a small flame to it to see if it emits a chemical odor.  The fact it retains its current shape, in spite of all the fractures, suggests it is manmade refuse.  Rocks would sound differently and clays would be friable.

 

@Paleontology12345 

How brittle is the piece?  Some parts look like they are barely attached.  Has it broken up any since you found it?  Did it look noticeably different from the clays in the area?

[Paleontology12345]

12 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

 

@Paleontology12345 

How brittle is the piece?  Some parts look like they are barely attached.  Has it broken up any since you found it?  Did it look noticeably different from the clays in the area?

It is all attached...see grey area where   I pried a piece with a knife off....the flaky area, I could break off with my fingernail..