Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Omnomosaurus

Hi folks!

 

Received a new theropod indet. tooth today from the ever exciting Kem Kem.

 

I was tentatively leaning towards a Carcharodontosaurid indet i.d., in line with morph type 3 in the always handy guide from @Troodon, but a few properties of the tooth have me wanting to get some extra opinions.

 

Measurements:

 

Crown Height: 27mm

Crown Base Length: 10mm

Cross Section: 7mm

 

Mesial serrations: 5/mm (midline)

Distal serrations: 3/mm (area just above damage at midline)

 

There is a neat repair at the tip, a bit of damage to the enamel near the apex on the anterior and around midline on the posterior. There is also a shallow chip out of the enamel near the cervix (can be seen in the cross-sectional pic).

 

The tooth is quite noticeably recurved (moreso than most teeth I've seen with a similar morph type). There is a labially displaced distal carina, in-keeping with Carch features, but chisel shaped denticles are present; something I have personally not seen on any teeth if this kind in the past.

 

Lingual Side

IMG_20210605_144216717.thumb.jpg.36ded33aee6577a27cd5dbce374ed800.jpg

 

Labial Side

IMG_20210605_144127508.thumb.jpg.242451bd13442147500d27ac6b77c290.jpg

 

Mesial Face

(The mesial carina is lingually displaced and reaches approx ⅔ way down the mesial face. Denticles are very subtle and annoying to count.)

IMG_20210605_143919949.thumb.jpg.91a4c32aa30c0ad74147c87eb3df4a94.jpg

 

Distal Face

IMG_20210605_143951752.thumb.jpg.4098589c611ed2783a406e8c05bc7eb2.jpg

 

Cross Section

590376356_IMG_20210605_1440357473.thumb.jpg.4db1f6539b19921f51443718f90d6b61.jpg

 

Mesial Denticles

1204419024_16228969741462.jpg.72b0b3b49d28f8df4771408eec8275e3.jpg

 

1488305734_16228976320212.jpg.549a3d07bbc0f470530a443432822b30.jpg

 

Distal Denticles

641239015_16228971623492.jpg.1826e42fd291fb1e2eaf9e65a02571ba.jpg

 

1379313523_16228977280102.jpg.a25eb9fdad69960a7179abe91d70bfa8.jpg

 

Comp w/ Carch indet. anterior tooth

image.thumb.jpg.a4cd4736310a1c5ebee2344263293a89.jpg

 

Denticles from the same position near the apex:

1622904040666.jpg.f2a896df77048b05ffdeb937921880b6.jpg

 

Thanks in advance for any input. :i_am_so_happy:

Edited by Omnomosaurus
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Omnomosaurus changed the title to Theropod Indet. Tooth

My input probably won't be very helpful as experts, but it does kind of resemble morpho 3, but off at the same time; possibly due to size? Perhaps a juvenile?

 

It reminds me of this tooth I have, it's also broken in a similar area. Though the chisel shape of the serrations on yours does seem different, while mine seems to be typical. I also tentatively labeled this as Carcharodontosauridae indet. similarly thinking it was along the lines of morpho 3.

532676431_Theropod1.thumb.jpg.56e36fd9032b7662e8b506d72347e8d7.jpg

632731155_TheropodSerration2.thumb.jpg.45304a38e3940ff69ae0b2b613295174.jpg

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not home to look at my teeth but a DSDI of 1.67 is pretty significant and along with how fine they are would argue against it being a Carcharodontosaurid.    Not sure what you have just another KK morph type to add to the list.

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen a few of these teeth pop up on here that don't quite fit the bill for Carch. I've heard somewhere, maybe on the forum, that there could possibly be a megaraptoran in the kem kem- an interesting prospect to say the least. Out of curiosity, I did a quick search on one of the genera known from more complete remains, Australovenator, and found this image. K/L seems to fit quite well in general shape to your tooth.

Teeth of Australovenator wintonensis. Isolated teeth in labial (A, C, E, F, G, I, J, L) and labial (B, D, F, H, J, K) views. A-B. Anterior dentary tooth or premaxillary tooth. C-L. Dentary teeth. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006190.g020

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Omnomosaurus
14 hours ago, Kikokuryu said:

My input probably won't be very helpful as experts, but it does kind of resemble morpho 3, but off at the same time; possibly due to size? Perhaps a juvenile?

 

It reminds me of this tooth I have, it's also broken in a similar area. Though the chisel shape of the serrations on yours does seem different, while mine seems to be typical. I also tentatively labeled this as Carcharodontosauridae indet. similarly thinking it was along the lines of morpho 3.

532676431_Theropod1.thumb.jpg.56e36fd9032b7662e8b506d72347e8d7.jpg

632731155_TheropodSerration2.thumb.jpg.45304a38e3940ff69ae0b2b613295174.jpg

 

Yeah, I think it's probably a juvie tooth due to the size too. The comparison in the last two photos is against a morph type 3 anterior tooth (another juvenile), so there are definite differences there.

 

Very nice tooth you've got there too! It is quite similar in places....but yours has much better denticles haha.

 

14 hours ago, Troodon said:

I'm not home to look at my teeth but a DSDI of 1.67 is pretty significant and along with how fine they are would argue against it being a Carcharodontosaurid.    Not sure what you have just another KK morph type to add to the list.

 

Thanks for that Troodon, you've made a good point about the DSDI there. I'm not too familiar with the ranges for average Catch teeth, but I'd be surprised if it's quite that high!

 

Am I right in assuming this to be an anterior tooth, due to the robustness of the cross section?

 

10 hours ago, PaleoNoel said:

I've seen a few of these teeth pop up on here that don't quite fit the bill for Carch. I've heard somewhere, maybe on the forum, that there could possibly be a megaraptoran in the kem kem- an interesting prospect to say the least. Out of curiosity, I did a quick search on one of the genera known from more complete remains, Australovenator, and found this image. K/L seems to fit quite well in general shape to your tooth.

Teeth of Australovenator wintonensis. Isolated teeth in labial (A, C, E, F, G, I, J, L) and labial (B, D, F, H, J, K) views. A-B. Anterior dentary tooth or premaxillary tooth. C-L. Dentary teeth. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006190.g020

 

You're right, the general shape is quite a good match. I'm not sure whether it's a contender for Megaraptoran, since their lateral teeth are slightly compressed and have a strange twist at the bottom of the distal carina. The mesial teeth are harder to i.d. from what I've seen.

 

I do have a lateral tooth with these features though, so I subscribe to the theory that there's a Megaraptoran or Neovenatorid in the Kem Kem (possibly Deltadromeus).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Omnomosaurus

A couple of clearer photos of carinae for anyone looking to make a comparison.

 

Mesial:

1622999622329.jpg.322a6055c9e8f1f068df2a3424258fd8.jpg

 

Distal:

1622999493963.jpg.28785dfcae7f64341b42fabd6c294a9f.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

All I can say about this is there is certainly an undescribed theropod from the kem kem beds the research being done is unlikely to match your tooth however, as it is much smaller.

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Omnomosaurus
4 hours ago, Haravex said:

All I can say about this is there is certainly an undescribed theropod from the kem kem beds the research being done is unlikely to match your tooth however, as it is much smaller.

 

Ooh, thanks for that tidbit @Haravex. Can't wait to see the paper if one ends up published....can you give any more clues as to what branch of theropod they might be looking at?

Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that a number of these indeterminate morphs will turn out to be from the same species just positional variations.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Omnomosaurus
On 6/12/2021 at 2:44 AM, Troodon said:

My guess is that a number of these indeterminate morphs will turn out to be from the same species just positional variations.  

 

Agree with you there. There are too many unidentified morphs in one location to all belong to separate species.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...