My vacation to the Catskill Formation

[JimB88]

I managed to actually take a vacation last weekend and meet up with our very own Tim and Paul to collect Late Devonian verts from PA. I first met up with Paul at Red Hill. When I first arrived at the site I didnt know the person there was him. So I parked and walked into the ditch at the base of the road-cut and immediately spotted a strange form in a piece fallen from above.

As it turned out it was a Gyracanthus spine!

 

 

Gyracanthus sp.

 

Turns out the mystery collector was Paul, who was kind enough to give me a rundown on the site, its geology, and show me the awesome finds he had been collecting. After being there for twenty minutes I was impressed by Paul's fortitude - it was hot, very hot! Red Hill is a difficult place to collect, with the best stuff coming from only one small band of sediments. One must spend hours removing overburden and working the layers back to find the sparse good finds. Paul is exceptionally well versed in the Upper Devonian Catskill material and is a great guy to collect with, even inspiring me to climb up and join him on the side of the cut. Unfortunately the heat was too much for me and I came down after only a short time.   A friend of his stopped by, who had several decades of collecting there. His name was Doug and he took me to the small museum in the nearby town to see the Red Hill material that he had collected there. As soon as I figure out how to upload the photos from my phone I'll share pics of the place..it was neat; there has been some incredible things from that site. Afterwards I returned and met up with Tim there (who is also knowledgeable and fun to collect and hang out with.  ) My overall impression of Red Hill: Very interesting site, best visited in the fall or early spring, requires dedication, perseverance and patience though to find the good stuff.

The next day I rode with Paul to meet up with Tim, Dave Broussard a Professor at Lycoming College,  and another teacher named Chris (I didnt get a chance to speak to Chris much unfortunately.) We met at a quarry near Canton which exposed more of the Catskill. Unlike Red Hill, there were fossils every where! And they were all vertebrate fossils too! My first good find is this plate with numerous juvenile (fingerling) Bothriolepis median dorsal plates and head plates.

 

 

Bothriolepis sp.

 

I learned later when working on this plate that a partial pectoral is also present (but I havent taken a pic yet.)

 

I also found this tooth (impression) of an unknown lobe fin fish

 

 

I also found a large section of skull plate most likely from Hyneria

 

 

Scales are the most common fossil at this site. 

 

 

This is a large example (though I cant remember the genus.)

 

By far my best find is a section of jaw from a ischnacanthid acanthodian. When I found this there was only one other from this site, so I donated it to Dave for his research into these fish. Shortly afterwards one was also found by Paul.

 

 

 

The teeth were not separate from the jaw bone in the ischnacanthids, though, they were made of dentin. It is doubtful if they could replace a broken tooth.

I'll be adding more finds from the quarry as I finish photographing them and cleaning them.

 

We stayed at the quarry til noon, after which Paul had to leave. Dave was kind enough to show Tim, Chris and myself the location of a productive road cut where many scales and placoderm plates could be found. Though he and Chris left after showing us the site, Tim and I collected for a bit. I did pretty good there (as did Tim.) 

Pieces of the placoderm Turrisaspis were very common. 

 

This is the dorsal median plate of one (the dorsal fin if you will)

 

 

and close-up

 

 

part of another one

 

 

This one has the spiny "leading edge" of the pectoral "fins" as well as a partial plate of the rarer placaderm Phyllolepis

 

 

 

With the exception of the Phyllolepis bit, all are Turrisaspis sp.

 

Heres an awesome model of Turrisaspis by C. Fredrick Mullison

 

 

As I work on trimming the blocks I keep making accidental finds, Like these partial Hyneria teeth

 

 

The top tooth is 1.5cm and the bottom is 13mm.  Hyneria sp.

 

And these unidentified fish teeth are fairly common as well . They are considerably smaller and more round for piercing unlike the hyneria teeth which have a sharp edge on the blade.

 

 

Its not uncommon for the tips to break 

 

Thats it for now, Ill keep posting pics as I clean them.

[connorp]

Really great finds! Thanks for sharing.

[Fossildude19]

Jim, 

It was great to meet you, and get to spend time hunting, with you. Really glad that you could make it up there to meet up. 

Bonus points for your fantastic finds, too! 

Congratulations again on that fish jaw, and the Bothriolepis finds.   

[FossilDAWG]

Impressive haul!  Looks like you had an excellent trip.

 

Don

[JimB88]

5 hours ago, connorp said:

Really great finds! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Ive a lot more to take pics of!

4 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Jim, 

It was great to meet you, and get to spend time hunting, with you. Really glad that you could make it up there to meet up. 

Bonus points for your fantastic finds, too! 

Congratulations again on that fish jaw, and the Bothriolepis finds.   

It was great meeting you too! That was a fun time,,even if it was a little hot. 

2 hours ago, FossilDAWG said:

Impressive haul!  Looks like you had an excellent trip.

 

Don

I did, that Catskill material is neat! Ive never collected in a formation where all you can find are vertebrates. 

[Ludwigia]

Sounds like you had a fantastic time! Not only fossil-wise, but also people-wise

[JimB88]

4 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

Sounds like you had a fantastic time! Not only fossil-wise, but also people-wise

Most definitely!

[jdp]

Nice material!

[Jeffrey P]

Looks like long trip up to Pennsylvania was very rewarding for you. Congratulations and thanks for sharing. Reminds me I haven't collected any Devonian fish material since NYPS stopped visiting Red Hill. I can see there are many, many reasons to return to that area of PA. Love that big fish scale, the partial Bothrolepsis, and the well preserved Turrisaspis dorsal fin. Nice!

[Misha]

Beautiful finds, I love this Devonian fish material so much!

 

I thought that Red Hill was closed off to collecting, has this changed?

[Fossildude19]

Yes. 

The Forestry service now has control of the property. 
They allow collecting, but no power tools can be used in the collection process. 

 

[aek]

Incredible finds!

[JimB88]

8 hours ago, jdp said:

Nice material!

It really is! And its so strange to me that its almost completely vertebrate material. You have to look hard to find an invertebrate; though a couple of bugs are known (a millipede and an arachnid.)

8 hours ago, Jeffrey P said:

Looks like long trip up to Pennsylvania was very rewarding for you. Congratulations and thanks for sharing. Reminds me I haven't collected any Devonian fish material since NYPS stopped visiting Red Hill. I can see there are many, many reasons to return to that area of PA. Love that big fish scale, the partial Bothrolepsis, and the well preserved Turrisaspis dorsal fin. Nice!

Thanks Jeff! You and I need to collect together next time your in KY.

6 hours ago, Misha said:

Beautiful finds, I love this Devonian fish material so much!

 

I thought that Red Hill was closed off to collecting, has this changed?

Me too! And I always thought it was as well (though, Im not sure how they would enforce that - theres no fence or anything.)

6 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Yes. 

The Forestry service now has control of the property. 
They allow collecting, but no power tools can be used in the collection process. 

 

That being said, it is a difficult site to collect at; you really need to know the correct layer. Its not like most roadcuts where a lot can be found at the base. Occasionally a person (like me with the spine) will get lucky but to get the good material requires systematically working the correct layer. And it brutal in the summer - we were being roasted while fighting off swarms of biting flies. Thats why I was impressed with Paul's fortitude..to be able to spend eight hours at that site. 

37 minutes ago, aek said:

Incredible finds!

Thanks! Its funny to me, after a while scales were meh. They were so common.

[jdp]

6 minutes ago, JimB88 said:

It really is! And its so strange to me that its almost completely vertebrate material. You have to look hard to find an invertebrate; though a couple of bugs are known (a millipede and an arachnid.)

 

This is less uncommon in freshwater and terrestrial localities than you'd think with the exception of plants, which are just about everywhere. I've been working Paleozoic vertebrate localities for almost 20 years now and I can count the number of arthropod fossils I've found at these sites on my fingers and toes (aside from conchostracans) but I lost count of the vertebrates years and years ago. Bone tends to be pretty resilient so long as it is buried relatively soon after the animal died (~weeks) and the soil isn't super acidic. Chitin, not so much. Freshwater and terrestrial molluscs are common in certain localities but they really don't become abundant until the Mesozoic.

 

Marine deposits, of course, are very different, especially when you're looking at either exceptional localities like Bear Gulch or your classic reef coquinas, but you can still get some exceptional vertebrate-dominated sites in those environments too.

[JimB88]

6 minutes ago, jdp said:

 

This is less uncommon in freshwater and terrestrial localities than you'd think with the exception of plants, which are just about everywhere. I've been working Paleozoic vertebrate localities for almost 20 years now and I can count the number of arthropod fossils I've found at these sites on my fingers and toes (aside from conchostracans) but I lost count of the vertebrates years and years ago. Bone tends to be pretty resilient so long as it is buried relatively soon after the animal died (~weeks) and the soil isn't super acidic. Chitin, not so much. Freshwater and terrestrial molluscs are common in certain localities but they really don't become abundant until the Mesozoic.

 

Marine deposits, of course, are very different, especially when you're looking at either exceptional localities like Bear Gulch or your classic reef coquinas, but you can still get some exceptional vertebrate-dominated sites in those environments too.

I never thought of that..though it makes sense. Im surrounded by Lower Carboniferous and Ordovician marine sediments - so inverts are the norm ( with the rare bradyodont tooth from the younger material.)

[JimB88]

A few more things, both from the road-cut on rt.15.

 

Part of a Phyllolepis plate..

 

 

The ridges are characteristic of this genus.

 

A mystery bone (most likely a sarcopterygian - waiting for Dave to get back to me on this one.)

 

 

This is all the same bone. Its like a skull plate attached to another part of the skull. Cant wait to hear back from Dave!

[NickG]

Wow. Phenomenal finds..makes me want to get out into our Catskill equivalents more. I've yet to find a productive layer for vertebrates but it has to be out there....

[JimB88]

4 hours ago, Nick G. said:

Wow. Phenomenal finds..makes me want to get out into our Catskill equivalents more. I've yet to find a productive layer for vertebrates but it has to be out there....

Thank you! That formation is incredible!

[JimB88]

As I've been going through this Catskill material I've been finding more things I didnt know I had! 

 

So here's my latest:

 

Sarcopterygian teeth (most likely Hyneria sp.)

 

 

The second one is complete and is nearly an inch long!

 

I've literally destroyed dozens of scale while trimming and cleaning up matrix. If I find a near perfect one I keep it.

 

 

Not sure if these are scales or placoderm bits.

 

 

Here's a plate of bits from the placoderm Turrisaspis sp. Including twp partial dorsal median plates!

 

 

 

 

 

Still have more to go through so stay tuned! 

3 minutes ago, JimB88 said:

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by JimB88
some reason it doubled it and fixing spelling

[hemipristis]

The Turrisaspis sp. dorsal spine is superb!

[JimB88]

5 hours ago, hemipristis said:

The Turrisaspis sp. dorsal spine is superb!

Thanks, its one of my favorites!

[crabfossilsteve]

I take it you guys didn't find any of those very small shark teeth at Red Hill.  Was there probably 20 years ago and came away with some nice finds.  Fun reading about it now.

[spike]

Wow!! Just came back from a trip myself on the east coast, was considering visiting Catskill. I didn't end up going, but it's so cool to see your finds. It's amazing how detailed some of them have remained through millions of years.

[JimB88]

3 hours ago, crabfossilsteve said:

I take it you guys didn't find any of those very small shark teeth at Red Hill.  Was there probably 20 years ago and came away with some nice finds.  Fun reading about it now.

I would have liked too, but apparently those occur in lenses and are generally not spread out through the formation.  Plus, at the time I didn't realize how small they were. 

Not to mention the extreme heat and biting flies that was very distracting when at Red Hill.

2 hours ago, spike said:

Wow!! Just came back from a trip myself on the east coast, was considering visiting Catskill. I didn't end up going, but it's so cool to see your finds. It's amazing how detailed some of them have remained through millions of years.

Some of the material there is very well preserved, though rarely do you find it articulated in most of the Catskill Frm; with Red Hill proper being the exception.

[crabfossilsteve]

Yes, they are small, but cool to see such old shark teeth.  Yeah, they do occur in lens along with the plates.  Very nice collection.