Harry Pristis Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ahh, Tracer just pretty much said what was on my mind but with more eloquent scientific terms and experience. Thanks, Tracer. Also found a photo online of some dugong rib fossils that look very much like what I found in Onslow County. On ecan find these images by goggle imaging "dugong rib fossil" Thanks again for all the help and information everyone! I learned something but I still am wondering why dugong ribs lack the usual bone porous structure. The usual answer to the question about the density of dugong rib is "ballast." It may be correct or not, but it is an inescapable consideration. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ahh, Tracer just pretty much said what was on my mind but with more eloquent scientific terms and experience. Thanks, Tracer. Also found a photo online of some dugong rib fossils that look very much like what I found in Onslow County. On ecan find these images by goggle imaging "dugong rib fossil" Thanks again for all the help and information everyone! I learned something but I still am wondering why dugong ribs lack the usual bone porous structure. Because that's the way they were in life - it has nothing to do with the fossilization process. My work is done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ahh, Tracer just pretty much said what was on my mind but with more eloquent scientific terms and experience. Thanks, Tracer. Also found a photo online of some dugong rib fossils that look very much like what I found in Onslow County. One can find these images by goggle imaging "dugong rib fossil" Thanks again for all the help and information everyone! I learned something but I still am wondering why dugong ribs lack the usual bone porous structure. rather that restate things i've said before, or incompletely answer, if you'll google pachyostosis you'll find quite a bit about the phenomenon. there are several variables needed to make it advantageous from an evolutionary standpoint that put it in a narrow range of manifestation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I have lots of dugong ribs with rings and holes and they look like tusks or whatever but they are not. " We're all puppets, I'm just a puppet who can see the strings. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I definitely vote dugong rib here and most likely a partial horse molar on the tooth fragment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 well, it's an interesting piece. the micro-porosity of the surface does seem more bone-like than anything else, including antler, if i'm honest. it's interesting to note, though, that on the "round" end where it's broken, the rings seems way off-center around a vaguely porous core that's way on one side, like at a 4 or 5 o'clock position. and then the other end has that weird flare and no trace of texture to the broken surface. maybe sirenian bone of some sort is the best hypothewag (i just made up that word - i'm actually sort of proud of it, but feel free to claim it as yours forever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Surely someone has access to a photo from a scientific paper or publication that can show examples of why this could be a dugong rib. I'm not saying it isn't. It's just that verification of an ID usually requires more than "so and so said so". Even Bobby offered some back up info for his thoughts, prior to the new photos. It's like the guy collecting arrowheads for 30 years calling the small ones used to kill large game, "bird points"...I'll respect some of his experience, but not accept everything he says as "the way it is". (Where are the Missouri members when you need them.) The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 There are probably no scientific references because no respectable scientist would waste their time on this. Experience is the greatest teacher - maybe that just doesn't work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 XX There are onprobably no scientific references because no respectable scientist would waste their time on this. Experience is the greatest teacher - maybe that just doesn't work for you. You feel better now, don? I was hoping that someone may have access to a photo that illustrated the unusual character of dugong bone. As you are well aware, many times a paper or publication (fossil book) will include related information that is not the primary focus of the publication. That, is what I was hoping someone may have to illustrate this unusual characteristic of dugong bones. I thought it would be a chance for those of us not as familiar with this type fossil to learn more about it. You can address your personal assumptions about me in PM. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32fordboy Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 woah nelly! I just realized something. Is it pathetic that we get so worked up over a rock? www.nicksfossils.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 You feel better now, don? I was hoping that someone may have access to a photo that illustrated the unusual character of dugong bone. As you are well aware, many times a paper or publication (fossil book) will include related information that is not the primary focus of the publication. That, is what I was hoping someone may have to illustrate this unusual characteristic of dugong bones. I thought it would be a chance for those of us not as familiar with this type fossil to learn more about it. You can address your personal assumptions about me in PM. As a matter of fact I do feel better, thank you . However if you wish certainty, I suggest that you do it yourself. We're really not here to convince you of anything - just giving our opinions some of which are based on observation and some based on knowledge and experience (and some making wild guesses ) Still fwiends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Surely someone has access to a photo from a scientific paper or publication that can show examples of why this could be a dugong rib. I'm not saying it isn't. It's just that verification of an ID usually requires more than "so and so said so". Even Bobby offered some back up info for his thoughts, prior to the new photos. It's like the guy collecting arrowheads for 30 years calling the small ones used to kill large game, "bird points"...I'll respect some of his experience, but not accept everything he says as "the way it is". (Where are the Missouri members when you need them.) John! John! John! You've hurt the feelings of all us dugong-voters! Nevertheless, I couldn't resist the challenge. I had to go rummage for this rib specimen -- I use 'em for ballast in larger plant pots. This blond rib is right out of the phosphate mine cut. I needed ballast to keep some equipment submerged at the bottome of the cut, and these heavy chunks came home with me. That is the only reason I have any of these rib sections at hand. It's too cold outside on my patio to search for other examples. There are no growth rings, no trabecular bone. The rib broke at a particularly deep boring. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Thanks for posting a photo, Harry. I've seen some of you mention this kind of bone before, but I don't remember many photos. I'm sure it's a fairly common find along the east coast, but we don't see many in Texas and I hoped to see some examples. You, hoffy, edd, and even Don had me "in the rib camp" before misunderstanding visited this thread. Thanks again, Harry for braving the cold to share the photo. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Here's a pic of a dugong rib I polished a little bit a while back to show the growth rings a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smilodon Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Thanks again, Harry for braving the cold to share the photo. Braving the cold in Florida? There's no "cold" in Florida. I braved the cold in my basement to get you this John. I wouldn't do that for just anybody y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl McEwen Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 I wonder why all of our dugong rib fragments are around the same length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 one of the characteristics of this type of bone is that it lacks the level of structural strength of "normal" bone. denser does not equal stronger, and in pachyostosis, relative strength is sacrificed as less necessary. but also, if you think about it, sirenian bones would likely be subjected to some fairly rigorous and energetic environments after deposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 This is obviously a Dugong antler. Duh. Do I have to explain everything around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregg Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 This thread is too much fun to pass up. I have hunted in Florida most of my life and probably have 50 pounds of Dugong ribs. I can tell you, it's a Dugong rib. Most have the clam burrows and all are solid. It is a balast thing. Search in ways to make discoveries, discover in ways to keep on searching. -Augustine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Gregg--how old are the ribs you find? I'm just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I wonder why all of our dugong rib fragments are around the same length? That's a good question, probably one for a materials engineer. I have noticed over the years of observing them that the more-slender ribs tend to preserve in longer lengths. But, that's just my impression. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 It must have warmed up on the patio, Harry...thanks for sharing another photo. Maybe Daryl's thread will turn into the 'lowly dugong rib' showcase. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffy Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 This is obviously a Dugong antler. Duh. Do I have to explain everything around here? Dude, thats funny. some area of this thread are just too serious . And Gregg I have used ribs for ballast diving at Venice they work great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyrules244 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Man look what you got started lol you have a rib and a horse tooth what everyone failed to think about is WE DON'T FIND DUGONG RIBS IN NORTH CAROLINA OFTEN so many of us including me have made the ivory mistake you have to admit guys they do look mighty ivory like if you've never seen them especially like the one I posted a couple of weeks ago from the same spot with a mastodon molar fragment laying not 2 feet from it. "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobC Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Hoffy--sometimes when the kids are fighting, I have to step in and solve the mystery that started it all. I am the Final Word. The Press often refers to me as"perhaps the most important paleontologist of our time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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