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Mailbox Canine - STH


Shellseeker

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PXL_20210713_193505504x.jpg.b4cbdc8aa4d4f3694472effa06533cf1.jpgIMG_1027.thumb.JPEG.775de1ceae5cdf5ff998821ecaa25544.JPEGIMG_1026.thumb.JPEG.7fd9b0e2c32c1052e59e2e8617b4e68b.JPEG

 

When I first saw this tooth, I was thinking Allodesmus,  maybe seal.  But then I noted the hollow root.  Certainly not croc/gator, so whale ? Do Dolphins have hollow roots? The ones I have found have closed roots. If whale or dolphin,  which one? Tooth is about 2.6 inches long.

Usual suspects:  @Boesse, @ynot @siteseer

Comments on open versus closed roots in marine mammals appreciated.

 

 

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The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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My vote is for seal

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

George Santayana

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20 minutes ago, hemipristis said:

My vote is for seal

Agree,  but I have and have seen seal teeth.  All those that I have seen have closed roots.  Can a seal tooth have an open root ? Is this one just broken ?

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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@hemipristis

 

I have had some time to think about this.... Found a Seal tooth from Aurora for sale.

Created this comparison....

The biggest difference is the closed versus open root.. Maybe this one from STH is just broken.  I am becoming a believer.

 

SealMerge.jpg.2b7de3b141e5fd383dd19511a23888a0.jpg

 

This tooth has an opposing tooth to rub against. 

IMG_1169.thumb.JPEG.18fa66c8e781ec7798a3ac0855006b9f.JPEG

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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9 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

@hemipristis

 

I have had some time to think about this.... Found a Seal tooth from Aurora for sale.

Created this comparison....

The biggest difference is the closed versus open root.. Maybe this one from STH is just broken.  I am becoming a believer.

 

SealMerge.jpg.2b7de3b141e5fd383dd19511a23888a0.jpg

 

This tooth has an opposing tooth to rub against. 

IMG_1169.thumb.JPEG.18fa66c8e781ec7798a3ac0855006b9f.JPEG

I’ll take a look at mine from

LC and Calvert.  I’m curious now

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

George Santayana

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This looks like a juvenile Allodesmus canine. All mammal teeth go through a stage where the root is open during early growth, sometimes as an adult the root stays open like this, but in most, the pulp cavity closes during adulthood.

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3 hours ago, Boesse said:

This looks like a juvenile Allodesmus canine. All mammal teeth go through a stage where the root is open during early growth, sometimes as an adult the root stays open like this, but in most, the pulp cavity closes during adulthood.

Thanks Bobby, I had been reading your blogs , downloading your papers, and found that interesting photo from Mitchell's 1966 SVP Pamphlet: Although smaller , I could see the similarities of my tooth to teeth on upper left.

 

1716175679_Allodesmusteeth.thumb.jpg.0b7d6dddc968d08917ec2b916219442a.jpg

 

Recently, a group of fossil hunters found a Kogiopsis jaw with teeth.  The video is on Youtube and painful to watch as they yanked the teeth out of the jaw, because they could not raise the fragile jaw with the teeth.. I realized my open rooted Kogiopsis teeth were not broken but naturally open rooted. I wanted to understand why and why not open roots in whales.

2021WhaleMyakkaRiver.jpg.e39337aadd1733cdb188e2cc9be6a206.jpg

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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Hi Jack,

 

I'm late.  As always, Bobby has it covered.  I would just add that seals aren't known from the STH Bonebed.  Allodesmus is neither a seal, a sea lion, nor a walrus in the sense that it isn't directly related to anything living today.  It is in a separate group of pinnipeds that died out in the late Miocene.  If we could see one alive, it might have resembled an elephant seal and we wouldn't have noticed a difference unless it had different coloring or moved differently.  I think Bobby would catch on to something different about it, though.

 

Anyway, that's a nice piece.  Allodesmus canines are almost always found broken and worn.

 

Jess 

Edited by siteseer
additional word for clarity
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1 hour ago, siteseer said:

Hi Jack,

 

I'm late.  As always, Bobby has it covered.  I would just add that seals aren't known from the STH Bonebed.  Allodesmus is neither a seal, a sea lion, nor a walrus in the sense that it isn't directly related to anything living today.  It is in a separate group of pinnipeds that died out in the late Miocene.  If we could see one alive, it might have resembled an elephant seal and we wouldn't have noticed a difference unless it had different coloring or moved differently.  I think Bobby would catch on to something different about it, though.

 

Anyway, that's a nice piece.  Allodesmus canines are almost always found broken and worn.

 

Jess 

 

Thanks for the response,  Jess.  I am learning Allodesmus.  It seems to have a number of species under the genus and there also seems to be variation in canines across the genus.

From the photo above where I compared to a seal tooth from Aurora, there is a LOT of similarity between a seal tooth from Aurora and a Allodesmus tooth from STH. It is very helpful to know that there are no seals at STH.  Thanks for the assist.  Just discussing a fossil gives me new insights.

SealMerge.jpg.2b7de3b141e5fd383dd19511a23888a0.jpg

The White Queen  ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

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