randyrn72 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) I am going through some items that have been in my family for a few years--and I have no idea what this partial vertebral column is from. I also don't know where it was found. Any ideas on this? It's 34 cm in length and 10 cm across. Each vertebrae is approximately 7.6 x 10 cm Thanks! Edited August 9, 2021 by randyrn72 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSRhunter Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Holy smokes that's mosasaur! Would even venture a guess to it being found in the North Sulphur in Texas 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Looks like Mosasaur indeed (Cervical vertebrates I am guessing) Preservation reminds me a bit of the Niobrara chalk but NSR could also be like @NSRhunter suggest. 1 Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) Thanks a lot for the info! I appreciate it greatly! I have a small piece of jaw with teeth that was in the same box-- I was thinking it was a crocodile jaw--but may be a mosasaur as well. Edited August 9, 2021 by randyrn72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, ziggycardon said: Looks like Mosasaur indeed (Cervical vertebrates I am guessing) Not cervical vertebrae (neck), these are further down the column...thoracic vertebrae. 6 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Lets see the jaw please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 @val horn I will get a pic of the jaw in the next day or two. It is a lot smaller in proportion -compared to the vertebrae. It is also a lot lighter in color. I'll post it as soon as I can! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) Yup, looks like mosasaur to me too A set of associated vertebrae. Not bad to discover amongst your family's belongings! The conservation reminds me of the Taylor Group, which includes the Wolf City Formation of the North Sulfur River. But this dark colour actually reminds me of a vertebra I once saw that was listed as Pecan Gap. In don't know much about the matrix (embedding stone) at these locations, however, so can't be fully sure, especially as the matrix does indeed look a lot like Niobrara Chalk Formation, possibly the Smoky Hills Chalk Member. But, as far as I'm aware, there's an easy way to test that: it the matrix rubs of on your hands like school-board chalk, it's Smoky Hills. Basically it comes down to whether it's from Kansas (Niobrara Chalk) or Texas (Taylor Group). As to the precise position the vertebrae would've come from along the mosasaur spine, I wouldn't really know, as I'm still learning. What I do know is that they come from the anterior part of the mosasaur body, closest the head (either cervical or thoracic dorsal), as they have a somewhat peculiar lateral structure supporting the neural arch, rather than the latter being located fully atop the vertebral body/the centrum, as can be seen in the diagram by D.V. Grigoriev below (source). I'll therefore defer to what @JohnJ suggested based on his experience with mosasaur skeletal material - and coincidentally pop the question as to how to differentiate between true cervical and thoracic vertebrae in mosasaurs. In any case, I don't believe mosasaur vertebrae to be diagnostic as to species. Having an associated jaw with teeth might help. Finally, you should be able to easily glue the broken section back together using some super-glue. These are typically cyanoacrylate and are used in different varieties for fossil preparation - mainly because they form a strong bond that, however, remains reversible with acetone. Ah, and welcome to the forum, by the way! I think you've already discovered that we've got some very knowledgable members on here Edited August 9, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon 8 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) Thank you @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon! I appreciate the info! I'll take a look at the matrix when I get off of work. I think it has a sandy grit to it. --YES! I forgot to ask about gluing the broken piece. Thanks for the info! I will definitely take care of that. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here for sure! Quite impressive! I will enjoy sharing this information with my kids! Edited August 9, 2021 by randyrn72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Alexander @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon always provides good references. Your vertebrae could be thoracic or upper lumbar. The easiest way to identify most mosasaur cervical vertebrae is the presence of a peduncle on the underside surface. These peduncles diminish in size as the cervical vertebrae transition to the thoracic. From Dale A. Russell's Systematics and Morphology of American Mosasaurs. 4 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamL Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Incredible set of backbones. Yorkshire Coast Fossil Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, JohnJ said: Alexander @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon always provides good references. Your vertebrae could be thoracic or upper lumbar. The easiest way to identify most mosasaur cervical vertebrae is the presence of a peduncle on the underside surface. These peduncles diminish in size as the cervical vertebrae transition to the thoracic. From Dale A. Russell's Systematics and Morphology of American Mosasaurs. Thanks, John! Both for the compliment and information I should really go over Russell's work again sometime. It's such a wealth of insights (yet there remain so many things to read with so little time to do so )...! So, in conclusion, then, if I understand it all correctly, the presence of these lateral support structures - that is, the zygapophyses not having been lifted up off of the vertebral centrum - and absence of peduncles mark these are thoracic vertebrae, right? Very cool! I think I'll need to review some of the mosasaur in my collection in that case 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Russell's descriptions are very thorough. 2 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, JohnJ said: Russell's descriptions are very thorough. Yeah, I've got a digital copy lying around here somewhere... With two young kids at home, it's finding the time to calmly read that often proves the problem, though Anyway, thanks for these pages. It makes the perfect excuse to find some time to read them 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I think this download still works. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 Thank you John! I can't believe how much I've learned about this in such a short amount of time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) Sorry it took me a while to get this posted. The jaw fragments I had in the same box as the mosasaur vertebral column ----are a lot smaller than I thought. (the longest being about 17 cm). All of these Items were in the same box as the vertebrae in my original post. Edited August 14, 2021 by randyrn72 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, randyrn72 said: Sorry it took me a while to get this posted. The jaw fragments I had in the same box as the mosasaur vertebral column ----are a lot smaller than I thought. (the longest being about 17 cm). All of these Items were in the same box as the vertebrae in my original post. Thanks for the additional photographs! They're quite informative. For one thing, it clarifies that these materials are unassociated, so that the jaws will not be able to inform upon the vertebrae. They are interesting in their own right, though... The fossil on the block of yellow matrix, for example, is a rooted tooth of a mosasaur, probably Prognathodon anceps, from the phosphate mines at Oulad Abdoun in Morocco. Below it is what looks to be a chunk of a sizeable ammonite, likely also Moroccan - although this is really not my speciality. The four jaw segments are crocodilian. May be @Jesuslover340 or @caterpillar can tell you what species they belong to. But to me the second from above looks like it could be Leidyosuchus sp. from the Hell Creek Formation? Edited August 14, 2021 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon 2 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyrn72 Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 Thanks @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon I appreciate it!!! Great info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterpillar Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 On 8/14/2021 at 11:22 PM, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: @Jesuslover340 or @caterpillar can tell you what species they belong to On 8/14/2021 at 11:22 PM, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: Croc for sure but difficult to know the species without infos about the location 2 http://www.paleotheque.fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now