Shellseeker Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 A couple of months back, I was pushing to hunt the Peace River before the summer rains closed me out. This was every other day leaving no time to sort, photo finds from previous days. Well, the Peace River is FULL of water and I am finding time to return to interesting finds. Here is a photo of finds from early June. On this day, I also found a seal tooth, posted for ID on TFF; Additionally I posted a couple of hours earbones and a small Botryoidal Chalcedony sample from lower left. This is an interesting location.... Note the almost complete Dugong vertebra and the chunk of ray mouthpalte... both unusual for the Peace River , mostly fragments. and so, I am BACK for a third bite at the apple. What is that fossil directly below the Dugong? Let me provide some photos and measurements: 65 mm x 48 mm x 41 mm.... so a 2 plus inch rectangle. I waited before posting today, because I felt it was an astragalus and could not think of a mammal that would have one this large...and then I thought of a mammal that had a much larger one.. It is not the same, but the fossil on the left is a Teleoceras Proterum Astragalus that I found in the Peace River 10 years ago !!! Long time between drinks. Enjoy the ride. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 @Harry Pristis, Harry, I am thinking this last bone , on 3 sides resembles a Scaphoid larger than Equus or Camel. However , it is this last photo that seems unique. I have searched for a while and found nothing that looks like it. 65 mm x 48 mm x 41 mm. I have sent a request to Hulbert. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Let's see if Hulbert will make a guess at it. He has told me in the past that he prefers to have these ankle bones in hand for identification. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Let's see if Hulbert will make a guess at it. He has told me in the past that he prefers to have these ankle bones in hand for identification. Just responded, At least it gives me a direction. I will donate this bone when I see him at a Fossil Club presentation he gives on October 21st. I am having trouble getting a look at a Menoceras Astragalus. Can you eliminate it? Jack Quote Hi Jack, I don’t immediately recognize what this bone is, which often means it is interesting. Although the articular surface shown in image 489 is similar to the proximal end of an astragalus, my suspicion is that is misleading, as the arrangement of articular facets on the opposite side, which in an astragalus would articulate with the calcaneum, do not look “right” for an astragalus. There are some places on the specimen which suggest broken edges, so it could be that the specimen is actually less complete than it appears. It does have a “flattened” look found especially in the wrist and ankle bones of Teleoceras and Glyptotherium. And those two are large enough animals to have a wrist or ankle bone of this size. So my strategy if I had the bone in hand would be to first make direct comparisons with other wrist/ankle bones of Teleoceras and Glyptotherium. If no matches found, would widen the search to include sloths and giraffe-camel. Sorry that I can’t give you anything more definitive right now. Richard 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Menoceras? Sure. 3 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 Thanks Harry, The very 1st photo looks somewhat similar, but then nothing else does... I am feeling a little excited that I have shown this to everyone I think has Florida mammal bone expertise and none have IDed it yet. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 @Harry Pristis @Plantguy Last night I posted a Fossil ID for what I thought was the distal end of a Tibia. @caterpillar suggested it might be a Scaphoid. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/118717-tibia/ @PODIGGER Then I searched the forum and found this thread from Chris. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/25301-peace-river-bone-possibly-horse/ @digit Harry posted that he thought Chris's bone is a Bison scaphoid. I reproduced one of Chris' photos. All I can tell is that Chris and I found the same bone 10 years apart. My measurements are 63 x 48 x 40 mm. Harry, do you think the differences between the photos are enough to change the species? 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I don't understand the question, Jack. We can't compare scaphoid to cubonavicular. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: I don't understand the question, Jack. We can't compare scaphoid to cubonavicular. Agree, bad question. Do you have a Bison Scaphoid to compare? I am concerned about the identification because Hulbert did not recognize it. UPDATE: Found this photo from this research paper. Dead ringer... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319018894_Late_Pleistocene_and_Holocene_Bison_of_Grand_Canyon_and_Colorado_Plateau_Implications_from_the_use_of_Paleobiology_for_Natural_Resource_Management_Policy Edited October 16, 2021 by Shellseeker 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Bison scaphoid (radial carpal): 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Bison scaphoid (radial carpal): Well, Harry I now am wondering.... Do I have BOS instead of BISON. I really seems like hard fossilization, but I guess you can never tell... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I think you're okay with Bison. Looks like you've got a left scaphoid while the illustration is of a right scaphoid. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineR Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Looks like you've got a left scaphoid while the illustration is of a right scaphoid. Jack, can you take a photo of the specimen in selfie with your phone? That should flip the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrow Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) Rotated and mirrored... Edited October 16, 2021 by darrow 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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