Fossil trip to Spain, Betic Cordillera (SE)

[Cedant]

Hi all,

 

I'm totally new to the forum, and going on a two week trip to South-Eastern Spain tomorrow, Valencia and Murcia region mainly. When I was younger we used to go fossil hunting, and I want to try to pick it up again during this trip. I read a bit about it, and found a geological map of the region. I think that's a good start right? I'm also taking some basic tools and rented a car. 

 

Do any of you have any tips for a beginner like me? Or maybe have experience in this region and/or know people there with experience? Or maybe, based on the map, you have a recommended area to go to? 

 

Cheers,

Steven

[caterpillar]

Be careful. Fossil hunting is forbidden in Catalunya and in others countries in Spain

[Paleorunner]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:04 PM, Cedant said:

Hi all,

 

I'm totally new to the forum, and going on a two week trip to South-Eastern Spain tomorrow, Valencia and Murcia region mainly. When I was younger we used to go fossil hunting, and I want to try to pick it up again during this trip. I read a bit about it, and found a geological map of the region. I think that's a good start right? I'm also taking some basic tools and rented a car. 

 

Do any of you have any tips for a beginner like me? Or maybe have experience in this region and/or know people there with experience? Or maybe, based on the map, you have a recommended area to go to? 

 

Cheers,

Steven

Hi there.
I'm sorry but now I don't have time, as soon as I can, I'll explain it to you in more detail.
But it looks bad, as Caterpillar says, hunting for fossils is prohibited throughout the country.

[Paleorunner]

On 20/8/2021 at 8:40, caterpillar said:

Ten cuidado. La caza de fósiles está prohibida en Catalunya y en otros países de España

 

Hello brother, (Toulouse and Elche are twinned)
Excuse me, allow me a little correction.
Until now, Catalonia is not a country. It is an autonomous community (formerly called regions). and the set of all autonomous communities, make up the country, Spain.
Kind regards.
               Paleorrunner.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Paleorunner

[Paleorunner]

13 hours ago, Paleorunner said:

Hi there.
I'm sorry but now I don't have time, as soon as I can, I'll explain it to you in more detail.
But it looks bad, as Caterpillar says, hunting for fossils is prohibited throughout the country.

 

Hello again @Cedant
As I said, hunting fossils is prohibited in Spain.
There are autonomous communities like Aragón, which are tougher in the application of the law. And others do not apply it so harshly.
You also have to take into account protected areas, such as National Parks, and other sites of great paleontological interest. In these places in particular, fossil hunting can cause serious problems for the offender.

 

When I started collecting fossils 11 months ago, I was hunting near my city.
Until after a couple of months, searching on the internet to be able to catalog some collected pieces, I came across several articles, which commented on the prohibition of collecting fossils in my country.
I was totally frustrated, later I began to ask, and inquire about the extent to which there were consequences, and under what conditions.
As a result, it seems that with the exception of these protected areas, and certain Provinces, or Autonomous Communities, taking a fossil, of which you can find loose, and not carrying any tools with you, has no consequence. Unless it is a fossil of special interest, such as vertebrates.

 

Since then, my collections are without any type of tools, picking up only loose pieces on the surface.

 

So far, and from what I have been seeing, it is a poorly made law, and with many gaps, in which each Autonomous Community applies it differently.
They have wanted to equalize it to the Archaeological Heritage law, but they do not apply it in the same way.
To give an example, if in some works, or excavations, remains of some ancient civilization appeared, the area would be paralyzed and cordoned off for study and conservation. If fossils appear in those works, which are not of special interest, it would continue its course destroying all the fossil fauna of the place.

 

Sorry for the length of my comments.
Good day.

 

[caterpillar]

7 hours ago, Paleorunner said:

Hello brother, (Toulouse and Elche are twinned)
Excuse me, allow me a little correction.
Until now, Catalonia is not a country. It is an autonomous community (formerly called provinces). and the set of all autonomous communities, make up the country, Spain.
Kind regards.

 

Hi brother

Excuse me, you're right. I was talking about countries just to simplify for our international friends who are not aware of the Spanish administration

[Paleorunner]

1 hour ago, caterpillar said:

 

Hi brother

Excuse me, you're right. I was talking about countries just to simplify for our international friends who are not aware of the Spanish administration

 

Calm down, there's no problem. 
Enjoy the weekend.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Paleorunner

[Cedant]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:24 PM, Paleorunner said:

 

Hello again @Cedant
As I said, hunting fossils is prohibited in Spain.
There are autonomous communities like Aragón, which are tougher in the application of the law. And others do not apply it so harshly.
You also have to take into account protected areas, such as National Parks, and other sites of great paleontological interest. In these places in particular, fossil hunting can cause serious problems for the offender.

 

When I started collecting fossils 11 months ago, I was hunting near my city.
Until after a couple of months, searching on the internet to be able to catalog some collected pieces, I came across several articles, which commented on the prohibition of collecting fossils in my country.
I was totally frustrated, later I began to ask, and inquire about the extent to which there were consequences, and under what conditions.
As a result, it seems that with the exception of these protected areas, and certain Provinces, or Autonomous Communities, taking a fossil, of which you can find loose, and not carrying any tools with you, has no consequence. Unless it is a fossil of special interest, such as vertebrates.

 

Since then, my collections are without any type of tools, picking up only loose pieces on the surface.

 

So far, and from what I have been seeing, it is a poorly made law, and with many gaps, in which each Autonomous Community applies it differently.
They have wanted to equalize it to the Archaeological Heritage law, but they do not apply it in the same way.
To give an example, if in some works, or excavations, remains of some ancient civilization appeared, the area would be paralyzed and cordoned off for study and conservation. If fossils appear in those works, which are not of special interest, it would continue its course destroying all the fossil fauna of the place.

 

Sorry for the length of my comments.
Good day.

 

Hi Paleorunner, thanks for your comment and the information. It's good to know about rules/laws, since even while reading some information and articles beforehand, I read nothing about fossil hunting being forbidden under certain circumstances. I don't think it will cause me any problems though, since I'm a total beginner and don't even know where to dig with tools anyway. I just look around and pick up loose rocks if I see something interesting. I brought some tools just in case, but haven't used any so far. I think for a large part it comes down to common sense; yesterday for example I entered a hiking area with a sign that said "don't pick any plants, stay on the path, don't litter (obviously) etc. The common sense part is that if those things are not allowed, then surely digging and destroying rocks is not a smart thing to do. 

 

Anyway, it's harder than expected to find anything at all. I think I found some good locations (photo) but no real fossils yet. 

 

All the best

[Cedant]

@Paleorunner Do you live in the Elche area by the way? I've been searching in the Crevillente area and visited the paleontology museum in Elche, really nice place!

[Thomas.Dodson]

Haven't really looked into Valencia or Murcia but as Paleorunner mentioned it boils down to the autonomous communities. I lived in Andalusia for a bit and from what I remember they were quite strict and no fossil collecting of any kind was allowed.

[Paleorunner]

6 hours ago, Cedant said:

@Paleorunner Do you live in the Elche area by the way? I've been searching in the Crevillente area and visited the paleontology museum in Elche, really nice place!

Hello there.....
Yes ! I live in the city of Elche, oh my, you were here to visit, and you went to see the MUPE. Small and humble museum of Elche.
I'm glad you liked the city, were you able to hunt something on your trip?
Kind regards....
                       Paleorunner.

.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Paleorunner

[Cedant]

@Paleorunner Yeah, nice museum! I went last sunday, it was actually free of charge for some reason. If you speak English and want to do some hunting together, let me know I have a (crappy) car and I'm in the area until 5th of september. I haven't found anything special yet actually, except for some small shell prints. It's harder than I thought. Today I did found the stone on the photo, what do you think it is?

[Paleorunner]

4 hours ago, Thomas.Dodson said:

Haven't really looked into Valencia or Murcia but as Paleorunner mentioned it boils down to the autonomous communities. I lived in Andalusia for a bit and from what I remember they were quite strict and no fossil collecting of any kind was allowed.

 

Yes. Andalucia is an autonomous community of the strictest.
There is a law at the national level, and on that law, some Autonomous Communities toughen it up, and others soften it.
Below I put two comments copied from certain newscasts ...... .....................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

_(To collect fossils in Spain you need an authorization. But national legislation is ambiguous and does not regulate the unscientific collection of fossils. The autonomous communities have developed their own rules, so the different regions have different protection of fossils.)

 

_( In some Spanish regions, collecting and storing a fossil may have no consequences, but in others it may lead to a penalty and even arrest.......... )

[Paleorunner]

9 minutes ago, Cedant said:

@Paleorunner Yeah, nice museum! I went last sunday, it was actually free of charge for some reason. If you speak English and want to do some hunting together, let me know I have a (crappy) car and I'm in the area until 5th of september. I haven't found anything special yet actually, except for some small shell prints. It's harder than I thought. Today I did found the stone on the photo, what do you think it is?

Wow, I don't speak English, if you don't speak Spanish, communication will be very difficult.
On the photo, if I'm not mistaken, galleries of some kind of crustacean.
In the Sierra de Guardamar del Segura (Pleistocene) you can find, I leave the car in the cemetery, and I head west looking for the outcrops and detachments.
In the Sierra de Hondon de las Nieves you have Jurassic, although I have not been hunting there yet. (I am also a newbie, I have been collecting for a short time, and collecting).
About 4 kms north of where I live, there is a stretch of ravine that you also find, (Miocene). the urbanization that crosses the ravine is called Bonavista.

[Cedant]

@Paleorunner I think I know five words Spanish, haha. Thanks for the tips, I'll check it out. As far as I can see on several maps, the mesozoic part starts north of the Elche - Crevillente line, so I think I'll be searching there mainly. I'll let you know if I find anything!