Some gastropods from a limestone wall in Paris

[diaseis]

Hi !

My girlfriend noticed some fossils from a cimetery wall just next to my appartment (which is located in a suburb really near Paris).  Thanks to some geology museum in Paris, we identified this limestone to be from Lutetian. It also happens that the fossils can be directly picked off the rock by hand without damaging the wall. So we got a few of them. Here is what we found :

 

I believe most of them are Sigmesalia, except for the bivalves which I suspect Crassatella. There are two specimen though that draw my attention :

 

I don't think they are from the same species from the others. Maybe some Cryptochorda stromboides

I mainly used the forum to find matching species with those, I'm not quite sure whether my identification (nor the method I used) is correct or not.
I hope you find this interesting (and beautiful ofc) !

Edited August 25, 2021 by diaseis

[Ludwigia]

I don't profess to know much about Lutetian gastropods, but I do know that it is extremely difficult to identify fossils right down to the genus and species when the samples are only steinkerns with none of the sculpture to be seen which are diagnostic features which would distinguish the various similarly shaped specimens from each other.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

I agree with Roger that most of what you've got there are steinkerns - the infill of a fossil, rather than the fossil itself - which are difficult, if not impossible, to determine. The actual shells would look more like this:

 

 

There's an excellent publication by Patrice Lebrun in the "Fossiles"-series called "Les Coquillages de l'Eocène du Bassin Parisien: Un Trésor Inestimable Vieux de Plusieurs Dizaines de Millions d'Années" that might help you in your identifications. As it's an older publication, however, it may take some searching to find an affordable copy. And while I have a collection of these shells from my childhood, I unfortunately don't have them available to me, nor do I know if my father still has their identifications accessible...

 

When I was a kid, there used to be quarries accessible around Paris where these shells could be collected. This might still be the case. On the other hand, as seems to have happened all across Europe, they may also have closed down. If you're interested in such fossils, it may be a good idea to get in touch with some local collections, who'll undoubtedly be able to help you further

[diaseis]

Hi !

Thanks a lot to you both ! I'm going to look for the publication you're talking about. Just to make sure I did undertand you too correctly : the genus and species can't really be identified. But is it possible to identify the family and/or the order ? From what I saw on the collection part of this forum even families can look very alike.
If so, the two ones that are quite different from the others might actually be completely different families.
 

I'll read a bit about classification and I'll come back talk about what I found.

[tombk]

Whether you’re able to identify them precisely or not, you have a cool collection. I’ve heard of fossil graveyards (fossil beds where large quantities of animals seem to have died in a short amount of time), but this gives a whole new meaning to the term!

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

3 hours ago, diaseis said:

Just to make sure I did undertand you too correctly : the genus and species can't really be identified. But is it possible to identify the family and/or the order ? From what I saw on the collection part of this forum even families can look very alike.

 

Unfortunately, I'm the wrong person to ask about that, as gastropods aren't really my speciality. In just happen to know - or, rather, have collected in - the area in my childhood. But for any more detailed questions you'd really need someone else... May be @FranzBernhard would know?

[Ludwigia]

13 hours ago, diaseis said:

Just to make sure I did undertand you too correctly : the genus and species can't really be identified. But is it possible to identify the family and/or the order ?

That may be possible, but you would probably have to do the research yourself.

[FranzBernhard]

19 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

May be @FranzBernhard would know?

Thanks, but no, sorry.

But lets try to tag some additional French members: @Coco, @fifbrindacier, @marguy, @caterpillar

There are still more knowledgeable members from France here on TFF, sure there is a Lutetian specialist somewhere.

Franz Bernhard

[LabRatKing]

[caterpillar]

I'm not gastropods specialist but I think you have Stromboidae and Turritellidae. Hard to tell more just with internal molds

[Coco]

I am OK with Caterpillar, internal molds don't permit to ID.

 

Coco

[fifbrindacier]

Hi, i'm alwo ok with Caterpillar, it's impossible to have a precise ifentification.