Realized I purchased a fake Moroccan croc skull but seller insists it's 100% authentic

[EckSmithSe]

Hi all! Very new to fossils, but hope to be stickin' around long term! 

 

While on a trip to Traverse City, MI this past weekend, I came across what appeared to be an amazing Moroccan crocodile skull fossil specimen (pics attached) at a mineral, fossil, and jewelry shop. The seller agreed to sell it for at a discount with guaranteed authenticity. I excitedly posted it on a fossil subreddit when I got home, and was immediately informed this specimen was an obvious fake from Morocco, and that Moroccan fossils are often fakes. One user specified the skull was likely constructed with sand, glue, and plaster, and the teeth are real fossil mosasaur teeth (stating isolated teeth were common from the late Maastrichtian, 66-67 Ma.) and they are placed in plaster skulls to scam tourists. He also said the general texture is off (appears to be sculpted sand in plaster), the skull lacks sutures, it has incorrect anatomy for the species they were attempting to recreate, and the top and bottom jaw should not be fused as they appear in this fossil. I'm ashamed I didn't catch any of this, as I'm a Research Scientist by trade who taught anatomy in grad school. Rookie mistake. 

 

I notified the seller of all of this, and he insists it's 100% authentic and that the dealer he purchased it from has never sold him a fake fossil in 10+ years. I am going to send him this thread, so could any members please chime in and confirm that this is indeed a very fake fossil Moroccan croc skull, or correct me of it isn't? I truly wish it was real, it's so dang cool! Thanks!

[Bobby Rico]

Did you pay with credit card or Paypal because you maybe insured .  

Edited September 12, 2021 by Bobby Rico

[EckSmithSe]

1 minute ago, Bobby Rico said:

Did you pay with credit card or Paypal because on maybe insured .  

I did pay with a credit card! I'm also hoping that he will see that I'm not trying to pull a fast one on him, and that I don't think he realized he sold me a fake fossil and will rectify the situation when he reads this thread. 

[Troodon]

See these skulls sold at the Tucson Fossil show by the dozens.  Very fake, fabricated and contain Mosasaur teeth not crocodile 

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I agree with what you have already been told, this is sand, glue and plaster, badly done and the teeth do look like mosasaur teeth to me. Crocodile teeth are more conical and may have a cutting edge but not this exaggerated. I have seen many of these for sale to tourists in Morocco and in Southern Spain, sellers often don't know they are fake and those that do will often admit it and sometimes say they are for sale as decorative items only. 

The stromatolite in the first picture isn't a stromatolite nor is it as old as claimed. It is an evaporite mineral formation that sometimes occurs in rocky deserts. 

[Praefectus]

28 minutes ago, EckSmithSe said:

One user specified the skull was likely constructed with sand, glue, and plaster, and the teeth are real fossil mosasaur teeth (stating isolated teeth were common from the late Maastrichtian, 66-67 Ma.) and they are placed in plaster skulls to scam tourists.

Glad I was able to be of some help. 

 

Here are some diagrams to use to show specific signs that your specimen is a forgery. 

 

 

 

 

 

For reference, this is what an authentic mosasaur skull looks like. Notice how the teeth are the same type as are in your "croc" skull. 

 

 

 

Good luck. 

 

 

[Troodon]

Found this on the web. A Paleocene Moroccan skull from the Ouled Abdoun Basin.  You can see the fine detail and clear bone definition. 

 

 

 

[Runner64]

1 hour ago, EckSmithSe said:

with guaranteed authenticity.

I hate to agree that it is a fake.  If you are interested in fossils and hope to buy in the future, please note that with fossils, unlike other collectibles and hobbies, there is no third party appraiser that can evaluate and provide physical documentation to prove authenticity.  If in doubt, ask before you buy for future reference!

Edited September 12, 2021 by Runner64

[EckSmithSe]

32 minutes ago, Troodon said:

See these skulls sold at the Tucson Fossil show by the dozens.  Very fake, fabricated and contain Mosasaur teeth not crocodile 

 

WOW! The top portion of the one on the right looks almost identical to mine! They must have moulds where they pump these suckers out. 

 

22 minutes ago, Praefectus said:

Glad I was able to be of some help. 

 

Here are some diagrams to use to show specific signs that your specimen is a forgery. 

 

 

 

 

 

For reference, this is what an authentic mosasaur skull looks like. Notice how the teeth are the same type as are in your "croc" skull. 

 

 

 

Good luck. 

 

 

I was wondering if I was gonna bump into you on here! Thank you thank you for the incredibly detailed breakdown of how this skull was forged down to a species level of what teeth were used! You are wonderful! This has been a surprisingly educational experience, lol. 

[Randyw]

I agree with the others. Definite fake. no skull sutures etc.
At least you have two methods of correcting this. Since he 100% guaranteed it if he’s honest he should refund your money. And if he doesnt then you’ve got your credit card’s fraud policy. Good luck and hopefully theres lots of real fossils in your future. The guys here are really helpful and freindly and will be glad to look over any ones you’re thinking about buying in the future!

[digit]

As has been said above, it is always a good idea to check with the members here if you have any doubts BEFORE making a purchase. As this purchase was made from a brick and mortar store with a fixed address it should be easier to get a refund than something being sold by vendors at a show.

 

This post will (hopefully) be seen by others thinking about buying similar items and may help them make an informed decision if they wish to buy a piece of "art" or if they wish to spend more and buy an actual fossil. While seeking a refund (or relying on the protection of your credit card company) please do not post any identifying information about the actual seller. We are happy to discuss the validity of fossil material but we shy away from valuations and we NEVER open ourselves to liability of having vendors trying to take legal action against the forum (we just don't have the resources or desire to fight slander charges).

 

We hope you find TFF useful and hang around to learn more about real fossils.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Troodon]

More fakes from the Tucson show

 

[Gareth_]

2 hours ago, EckSmithSe said:

I'm ashamed I didn't catch any of this, as I'm a Research Scientist by trade who taught anatomy in grad school. Rookie mistake. 

Welcome to TFF!

Don't beat yourself up too much about that. It is very easy to get caught up in the moment and buy on impulse if you're inexperienced. I've nearly done it before but I told myself to step back and look at the fossil with a critical eye and yep, it was fake. 

I hope you can get a refund and put the money toward a really nice, genuine fossil

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Gareth_

[Bobby Rico]

8 hours ago, EckSmithSe said:

notified the seller of all of this, and he insists it's 100% authentic and that the dealer he purchased it from has never sold him a fake fossil in 10+ years. I am going to send him this thread, so could any members please chime in and confirm that this is indeed a very fake fossil Moroccan croc skull, or correct me of it isn't?

There is plenty of convincing evidence to state this is a complete fake skull. This fake can’t be called art too because art has an integrity to it. This was made to deceive.  So if the seller does not do the right thing by you, your credit card company can also be directed to this thread. You have had replys by some of our most experienced members in vertebra fossil who work with fossilised bone daily  and even from our incredible man in Morocco.
Good luck Bobby 

[LordTrilobite]

Not really anything more to add to what the others have already said. Clearly a fake skull.

[Mark Kmiecik]

It IS a 100% authentic fake, so when the seller says it's authentic, he's right -- 100% authentic fake.

[Phos_01]

On 9/13/2021 at 1:27 AM, Troodon said:

More fakes from the Tucson show

 

This should be illegal at such a big fair. unless its clearly marked as 'decorative reproduction' or something. I find these Moroccan forgery very upsetting! 

[jpc]

croc/gator skulls have a distinctive texture that is not seen in yours or any of the flock posted by troodon.  All fakes.  Sorry.

[trilo]

unfortunately you can see such fake skulls on nearly all fossil shows! I have seen at two shows a label on them with "deco/fabricated"