Labels on fossils - pros and cons; show and tell

[Bobby Rico]

1 hour ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

If anyone could give any advice on very very small containers for fossils (we're talking millimetres long!), I'd be much obliged.

If like macro fossil which I love, I use little gem pots or if there is more quantity test tubs with stoppers work great and look cool.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Bobby Rico

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

5 minutes ago, Coco said:

Yes of course, but you have to keep them away from moisture otherwise both parts stick together (it’s made with fish or pork jelly). Look at what happens if you take your capsules (medications) with wet fingers: they stick to your fingers. In the worst case we can cut them with scissors or with a cutter paying attention to the fossil inside.

 

Coco

That makes a lot of sense. Do you know if you can buy similar items but in plastic? 

 

Isaac

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Rico said:

If like micro fossil which I love, I use little gem pots or if there is more quantity test tubs with stoppers work great and look cool.

Would you mind attaching a photo or two so I can visualise it better? Sorry for the hassle!

 

Do you put multiple specimen in a single test tube?

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

Oh also, as we're both Brits, would you be able to PM me a link to where you get them from? Cheers again, many many thanks!!!

[Coco]

29 minutes ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

That makes a lot of sense. Do you know if you can buy similar items but in plastic?

 

I don’t think so, because these are medical items and the body must be able to dissolve them, which would not be the case with plastic.

 

Coco

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

Just now, Coco said:

I don’t think so, because these are medical items and the body must be able to dissolve them, which would not be the case with plastic.

 

Coco

I understand this, and to be honest, we don't need any more plastic waste! I'll look into other ways to store it, thanks for the help!

[Wrangellian]

7 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said:

All fossil collected at the same locality regardless of the collection date get the same site number. Someday I might put a unique number on a fossil that corresponds to a catalogue entry. For now, my fossils are mostly organized in mineral boxes by formation and then general type. Example: Naco Fm. corals.

In addition to a notebook full of locality info, I copy topo maps with the localities and numbers pointed out. I have too many site numbers to remember.

Maybe you could add a number or letter to each fossil after its location/date, and you'd have a unique cat# for each fossil and could refer to a specific specimen, but you haven't needed to do this as yet?

Since we're sharing, my system is pretty simple - not necessarily better, but it works for me: The example above is Tz1467 - Tz meaning the exposures on Mt Tzuhalem, followed by a serial number. This is the 1467th fossil I've collected there (not including a few that I traded away). All the info as to exact location and date of collection, and ID or possible ID, goes into the notebook. I didn't want to be writing a long string of numbers or letters onto each fossil, so I kept it simple. The first one was Tz1. The main thing is each fossil has a unique number. I don't have a lot of sites that I've collected so it's not hard to come up with new 1-, 2-, or 3-letter abbreviations for each new site. (If you add all my bought fossils that increases dramatically, and many of those are not certain or clear, so I've not decided how to approach that yet, and maybe I won't bother.)

6 hours ago, Crusty_Crab said:

In summary, GPS coordinates are good, only as long as you note how you obtained them (using a GPS device using ___ datum, or using Google maps and WGS 84 to estimate where you were). Knowing all of these limitations, a detailed description of the location should also be included, referencing landmarks so that one can verify the coordinates.   

That's a little shocking... it flies in the face of what I thought I knew about GPS: I thought I heard that they can use satellites to measure crustal movement due to continental drift between two locations with markers on the ground. That would have to be pretty accurate. I guess it can be as long as they're using the same system/model.

Anyway, that's good to know... I will not rely on GPS or Google Maps, at least not solely.

[Wrangellian]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:38 AM, Bobby Rico said:

I think your new labels look really good. Can’t see any harm in attaching a label directly to a fossil. As you said probably not on the display side. I liked to collect fossil from old collections  especially ammonite. I have quite few with labels attached  circa 1950s, I feel I could remove them if I needed to.

cheers Bobby 

I guess you see a lot more of that kind of thing over there in England. Over here it's much less common. No worries, I'll make my own!

 

On 9/14/2021 at 12:36 PM, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

Would you mind attaching a photo or two so I can visualise it better? Sorry for the hassle!

Do you put multiple specimen in a single test tube?

If you mean the gem pots, I think he means these:

https://indiana9fossils.com/product/lidded-gem-jars/

[Denis Arcand]

I ponder the pro and con about how to label by fossils, I first define my requirement, I didn't want to damage my specimens and wanted the label to be removable for the reason mention before, in case my collection goes to someone else and they have a different labeling system, so, engraving a number or other information on it was out of the question. Because I keep some of my fossil outside, having a waterproof label was another of my requirement, so paper was out of the question, so it has to be plastique or at least plasticized paper. The label must also adhere well to the rough surface of the fossil. It also has to be simple to implement, I didn't want to spend too much time doing the labeling.  I also need to be visible, I have lots of plate that look alike, so my label has to be easily identifiable, so I can quickly find particular specimen went I'm searching for it. 

 

So, what solution did I found ?. A simple hand-held label maker that can handle plastic of plasticized label.  Of course, theses label doesn't adhere well on uneven surface, to remedy this I'm using a double-sided adhesive tape. I’m using 3M Super Strength Molding, don’t use the other one, they don’t work well, they tend to peel off.  This tape is used for permanently attaching side moldings and trim to vehicles. It uses the same elastic bonding technology employed for airplanes and skyscrapers to attach body moldings, trim and emblems to your vehicle. This tape features an extremely strong adhesive, and it’s also easy to use, we just pull of the liner and apply. And it also withstands weather. 

 

The amazing thing is, If I tug hard enough on the label and proceed slowly, the glue stays on the label not the fossil, it can peel right off without damaging the fossil.  I got a bunch of fossil place outside the house, and they still have they label after a couple of months in bad weather, I don’t know about snow yet (-:.   

 

Having all the information in my computer database, I print only the identifying number and nothing else. And to be completely safe I print the documentation on a piece of paper and place it in a Ziplock bag with the fossil.  

 

For those who have different need, they exist more elaborate label make that can handle different font size for big and small characters, with those you can print all the information you want. Some can handle color and plasticized paper for water resistant label, although not as strong and waterproof as the plastic label I'm using.

 

[Crusty_Crab]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:58 PM, Wrangellian said:

Maybe you could add a number or letter to each fossil after its location/date, and you'd have a unique cat# for each fossil and could refer to a specific specimen, but you haven't needed to do this as yet?

Since we're sharing, my system is pretty simple - not necessarily better, but it works for me: The example above is Tz1467 - Tz meaning the exposures on Mt Tzuhalem, followed by a serial number. This is the 1467th fossil I've collected there (not including a few that I traded away). All the info as to exact location and date of collection, and ID or possible ID, goes into the notebook. I didn't want to be writing a long string of numbers or letters onto each fossil, so I kept it simple. The first one was Tz1. The main thing is each fossil has a unique number. I don't have a lot of sites that I've collected so it's not hard to come up with new 1-, 2-, or 3-letter abbreviations for each new site. (If you add all my bought fossils that increases dramatically, and many of those are not certain or clear, so I've not decided how to approach that yet, and maybe I won't bother.)

That's a little shocking... it flies in the face of what I thought I knew about GPS: I thought I heard that they can use satellites to measure crustal movement due to continental drift between two locations with markers on the ground. That would have to be pretty accurate. I guess it can be as long as they're using the same system/model.

Anyway, that's good to know... I will not rely on GPS or Google Maps, at least not solely.

The issue is not with the technology. In theory, GPS using the best survey grade units with plenty of radio and cell phone towers around (to enable RTK and differential GPS technologies), optimal weather and line of sight conditions can get sub-centimeter accuracy. The main issue is user error and most devices we use, such as our cell phones, are nowhere near that good. In fact, if you check the specs on most consumer grade GPS devices, they are intentionally vague about accuracy. I personally would not trust a cell phone or consumer grade GPS unit to be more accurate than about 10 feet in the very best of conditions. The way I approach GPS is that the coordinates I get using my cell phone or Google Maps is good enough to get me to the general location. Good field notes are then needed to guide the last few feet to the exact location. 

[Wrangellian]

6 hours ago, Crusty_Crab said:

The issue is not with the technology. In theory, GPS using the best survey grade units with plenty of radio and cell phone towers around (to enable RTK and differential GPS technologies), optimal weather and line of sight conditions can get sub-centimeter accuracy. The main issue is user error and most devices we use, such as our cell phones, are nowhere near that good. In fact, if you check the specs on most consumer grade GPS devices, they are intentionally vague about accuracy. I personally would not trust a cell phone or consumer grade GPS unit to be more accurate than about 10 feet in the very best of conditions. The way I approach GPS is that the coordinates I get using my cell phone or Google Maps is good enough to get me to the general location. Good field notes are then needed to guide the last few feet to the exact location. 

Right... well even 20 or 25 feet is not too bad, for an area where the rock was disturbed etc. and better than just a town name or no location data at all which is what I get with a lot of fossils that come to me from other people!

[Wrangellian]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:47 PM, Denis Arcand said:

 

You're keeping fossils outside, over winter??

I've seen those things, I just wonder how long the adhesive will last. Seems to me I've seen them come off after time..

I can see how that would be quicker to use, esp. if you have a lot of fossils to do at one time. I prefer the look of my system for catalogue numbers which involves white felt pen lettering (or fine-tip paintbrush) sealed in a dab of Acryloid. That's on dark stone - light stone can take a regular black archival pen marking.

The idea of the more extensive labels I show above is to keep the actual information on the fossil so that there's no way it can get lost, but that's in addition to a catalogue number and more detailed notes in the notebook.

[Denis Arcand]

 

19 minutes ago, Wrangellian said:

You're keeping fossils outside, over winter??

I've seen those things, I just wonder how long the adhesive will last. Seems to me I've seen them come off after time..

I can see how that would be quicker to use, esp. if you have a lot of fossils to do at one time. I prefer the look of my system for catalogue numbers which involves white felt pen lettering (or fine-tip paintbrush) sealed in a dab of Acryloid. That's on dark stone - light stone can take a regular black archival pen marking.

The idea of the more extensive labels I show above is to keep the actual information on the fossil so that there's no way it can get lost, but that's in addition to a catalogue number and more detailed notes in the notebook.

 

Sorry, i forgot to say that i'm only keeping the lousy one outside, they are mostly plate with small brachiopod. I want the weather to erode them, this will remove the first layer of fossils and dirt  and expose the next layer of fossils under it, it can also make fossils more visible after a certain amount of time, I'm just using mother nature, erosion process. One must not be in a hurry this process can take years , but it does not required any effort, we just letting time do it thing.

 

Like i say  I’m using 3M Super Strength , my label has two layer,  the molding ruban and the plastic label. The molding ruban has a double sided adhesive that i put in between, one side adhere to the fossil the other side adhere to the label. I started with other  brand but like you say they some time come off.  Also the label must be strait if it curve they is more chance of it coming off. If it is done well it's very difficult to remove, but they can be removed. 

 

The same method can be used to make a printout paper label  to adhere to the fossil  without actually using glue that either doesn't stick to the fossil or doesn't come off.  That was one of the problem reported in this forum.

 

I am still experimenting, I have more than 400 fossils identified like this,  none of them have lost they label yet.

 

It satisfy my need for now and it is a quick process, I don't exclude other solution for a more permanent labelling, in the future i may also use a felt pen, like you do,  one solution doesn't exclude the other. (-:

 

 

 

 

 

[Wrangellian]

35 minutes ago, Denis Arcand said:

S

Oh I see. The bit about the different tape didn't register... Well if it works, it works! I never meant to imply that only one system should be used.

I like the idea of using Mother Nature to prep your fossils... If you can't prep them yourself and you're patient! I guess it would work better with limestone and silicified fossils - I would not trust it with my shale over here. It is good for weathering the shale to expose new fossils, but not for 'prepping' already-found fossils, which only crumble.

[cngodles]

On 9/14/2021 at 3:24 PM, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

If anyone could give any advice on very very small containers for fossils (we're talking millimetres long!), I'd be much obliged.

 

@IsaacTheFossilManI recently started using mini glass jars with aluminum lids. They are sold by the 100 count on Amazon (Search MaxMau). The ones in the photo are 5 ml. They have 10 ml and others. Also, I found 17 mm round labels that fit on the top for labeling.

 

Also, nice to meet another fossil collector with a GitHub account.

 

 

Labeling and Cataloging, My Personal Take

 

I absolutely hate the idea of applying a label anywhere with definition directly on a specimen. For example, I've seen Petalodus teeth with the label written on the crown. However, I will put it on the underside or part of the specimen that doesn't much change the way it looks.

 

I will handwrite a catalog number with archival ink directly on darker limestone. I'll take a grinder and try to create a flat spot on the area big enough for the 6 digit catalog number. So far, so good. I researched using Paraloid with material to make it white, then to write the label on there and cover it again once it is dry. The method works but is very time-consuming. Perhaps if I had to label several specimens, I would use paraloid for all of them.

 

I'll apply just the number to the specimen.

If it ends up in a box or jar, I try to add a label or card that has the ID, the genus and species, and a short note about the location or stratum.

I used to keep the data in a Google Sheet. Recently I switched to an MYSQL database, which is directly connected to my online catalog:

https://fossil.15656.com/catalog/

 

I published a small trade book on my first 120 specimens. I included some photos, but the meat of the catalog was written ID, genus & species, stratum, and collection location notes if I had them. I'm up to 250 specimens, so I'm thinking that I will soon publish either an updated volume or an addendum for the next 130 specimens.

 

I have a display case that has most of the 250 in it. I really need to either purchase flat storage or spend some time creating my own wooden storage tray cabinet.

 

I have another 500 specimens at least that are uncatalogued and sitting out. Two things are stopping me from cataloging those. They are:

• It takes time.
• I don't have much more room to store them.

Example of an on-specimen label. Placed on a portion where it doesn't change the way the specimen itself looks.

 

Sample of the trade book I created:

 

 

And my maxed out case, boxes with specimens and label cards.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by cngodles

[connorp]

44 minutes ago, cngodles said:

I researched using Paraloid with material to make it white, then to write the label on there and cover it again once it is dry. The method works but is very time-consuming. Perhaps if I had to label several specimens, I would use paraloid for all of them.

This is how I do it. It seems like a lot of work at first but it really isn't. I use a layer of Paraloid, a layer of white acrylic paint, then the specimen label with archival ink, and then a final layer of Paraloid. I like this method for a couple reasons. One is that I would need multiple pen colors (if not using paint) for the different formations I hunt - black pen would not work for black shale. Also, if I am labeling something like soft sandstone or shale, the ink would not affix well on its own. And if I need to remove a label for any reason, it comes off easily with some acetone due to the bottom Paraloid layer.

I find it easiest to use glass nail polish bottles for both the paint and Paraloid. The brushes are the perfect width for labels.

[cngodles]

11 hours ago, connorp said:

a layer of white acrylic paint

At one point I was reading that a jar of paraloid with titanium dioxide added works well for the base layer. It colors it white.

 

The problem I have is I use acetone as the suspension, so it tends to lift the label when I add the final coat.

Edited October 10, 2021 by cngodles