Needed help with identifying shark teeth from morocco

[Jerrychang]

Hello everyone, I bought a bucket of small shark teeth from a fossil dealer in my country many years ago. The tag on it says it’s from morocco, khouribga, and the age is Eocene, Cenozoic.

 I found it when I was cleaning my room last week, and I started trying to identify them.

 I guess that 1st and 3rd one is carcharias, 2nd one is striatolamia, and the 4th one is cretolamna. 
If these conjectures are obviously wrong, I’m very sorry about that.

In my country, there is no research on this subject and these sharks don’t even have an official name.

Thanks for your help.

 

(The measurement standard is centimeters and sorry for my poor English expression.)

 

[Coco]

2 hours ago, Jerrychang said:

In my country, there is no research on this subject and these sharks don’t even have an official name.

I can’t help you, but know that every fossil has an official name, it’s Latin! Vernacular names (in your language) can change from one region to another, and even worse from one country to another. That is why Latin is used, because whatever the country, the name is always the same.

 

Coco

[Gareth_]

Hey and welcome to TFF! 

 

2. Sand Tiger shark, so you're right with Carcharias - I'm unsure of the species.

1. Possibly the same as above?

4. Otodus obliquus - these teeth get to over 100mm in slant height and was the beginning of the Megatoothed sharks 

Cretalamna is close, earlier than O. obliquus but still in the family Otodontidae 

 

 

[Jerrychang]

1 hour ago, Coco said:

I can’t help you, but know that every fossil has an official name, it’s Latin! Vernacular names (in your language) can change from one region to another, and even worse from one country to another. That is why Latin is used, because whatever the country, the name is always the same.

 

Coco

Thanks for the information ~

[Jerrychang]

38 minutes ago, Gareth_ said:

Hey and welcome to TFF! 

 

2. Sand Tiger shark, so you're right with Carcharias - I'm unsure of the species.

1. Possibly the same as above?

4. Otodus obliquus - these teeth get to over 100mm in slant height and was the beginning of the Megatoothed sharks 

Cretalamna is close, earlier than O. obliquus but still in the family Otodontidae 

 

 

Appreciate your help ~

 

I would like to ask, what is the main difference between carcharias and striatolamia?
Besides, I’m wondering how to distinguish between cretalaman and O.obliquus? Is the count of nutrition pores matters?

[Gareth_]

3 hours ago, Jerrychang said:

I would like to ask, what is the main difference between carcharias and striatolamia?
Besides, I’m wondering how to distinguish between cretalaman and O.obliquus? Is the count of nutrition pores matters?

From what I can tell, Striatolamia and Carcharias are both genera in the family Odontaspididae. So to go back on what I said earlier.... either could be correct on the ID of your teeth. Someone with more knowledge will hopefully chime in  (I'm always learning here too)

 

From my understanding, smaller teeth can be hard to tell apart. I only have 2 Cretalamna teeth in my collection so my basis for comparison is not large. The crown and root on both look quite different to any of my O. obliquus teeth. I've struggled to get good information on them, even something as simple as upper/lower teeth differences.
One noticeable difference I can see between them, there is no bourlette on my Cretalamna teeth. O. obliquus, O. auriculatus, O. angustidens etc do have a bourlette. Even my Palaeocarcharodon teeth have what looks like a narrow bourlette. But given I only have 2 Cretalamna teeth, I don't know if that's diagnostic. 

[Jerrychang]

1 hour ago, Gareth_ said:

From what I can tell, Striatolamia and Carcharias are both genera in the family Odontaspididae. So to go back on what I said earlier.... either could be correct on the ID of your teeth. Someone with more knowledge will hopefully chime in  (I'm always learning here too)

 

From my understanding, smaller teeth can be hard to tell apart. I only have 2 Cretalamna teeth in my collection so my basis for comparison is not large. The crown and root on both look quite different to any of my O. obliquus teeth. I've struggled to get good information on them, even something as simple as upper/lower teeth differences.
One noticeable difference I can see between them, there is no bourlette on my Cretalamna teeth. O. obliquus, O. auriculatus, O. angustidens etc do have a bourlette. Even my Palaeocarcharodon teeth have what looks like a narrow bourlette. But given I only have 2 Cretalamna teeth, I don't know if that's diagnostic. 

Thank you for sharing your observations. I don’t have any fossils with marked species, so maybe I should read more papers.

Besides, the standard I used is this poster, I’m wondering if it is reliable or not?

[bthemoose]

Teeth 1-3 are sand tigers. #3 does look like Striatolamia sp.—is the enamel striated? #1 might be Brachycarcharias sp. #2 looks like Odontaspis sp.

 

#4 looks more like Cretalamna appendiculata than Otodus obliquus to me.

 

This is another good reference for Moroccan shark teeth: http://users.telenet.be/sharkteethcollection/sharkteeth list totaal/totaal sharteeth list.htm

Edited September 16, 2021 by bthemoose

[Jerrychang]

4 hours ago, bthemoose said:

Teeth 1-3 are sand tigers. #3 does look like Striatolamia sp.—is the enamel striated? #1 might be Brachycarcharias sp. #2 looks like Odontaspis sp.

 

#4 looks more like Cretalamna appendiculata than Otodus obliquus to me.

 

This is another good reference for Moroccan shark teeth: http://users.telenet.be/sharkteethcollection/sharkteeth list totaal/totaal sharteeth list.htm

Most of the teeth in that bucket which looks like #2 are striated. #3 didn’t have any stripes on its enamel.

 I still curious how to distinguish between cretalamna and small otoduus obliquus?

Thanks for sharing a good website.  Seems that it provides a lot of good samples.

[bthemoose]

I should have prefaced my previous post by saying that sand tigers can often be difficult to tell apart, particularly from just looking at photos. My IDs are my best guesses, but there are also others on this forum who have more expertise both generally and with Moroccan teeth specifically. Striations can sometimes be very faint or worn away though it’s also possible #3 is something other than Striatolamia. Striatolamia also aren’t the only sand tiger teeth with striations though it’s one of their diagnostic features.
 

Cretalamna vs. Otodus can also be difficult. Otodus evolved from Cretalamna, but the two then coexisted for millions of years from the Paleocene to early Eocene and you can find teeth from both in the same deposits. Your specimen is lacking much of the root, which is one of the features people sometimes use to try to differentiate the two, so that makes the ID more difficult. My assessment of Cretalamna is based on the size of your tooth and my judgment of the cusp and remaining cusplet shape, having looked at many examples of Cretalamna and Otodus in my collection, though more from the Paleocene of Maryland rather than the Eocene of Morocco. I may very well be wrong. You might be interested in this TFF thread on trying to differentiate the two:

 

 

[Gareth_]

1 hour ago, bthemoose said:

I should have prefaced my previous post by saying that sand tigers can often be difficult to tell apart, particularly from just looking at photos. My IDs are my best guesses, but there are also others on this forum who have more expertise both generally and with Moroccan teeth specifically. Striations can sometimes be very faint or worn away though it’s also possible #3 is something other than Striatolamia. Striatolamia also aren’t the only sand tiger teeth with striations though it’s one of their diagnostic features.
 

Cretalamna vs. Otodus can also be difficult. Otodus evolved from Cretalamna, but the two then coexisted for millions of years from the Paleocene to early Eocene and you can find teeth from both in the same deposits. Your specimen is lacking much of the root, which is one of the features people sometimes use to try to differentiate the two, so that makes the ID more difficult. My assessment of Cretalamna is based on the size of your tooth and my judgment of the cusp and remaining cusplet shape, having looked at many examples of Cretalamna and Otodus in my collection, though more from the Paleocene of Maryland rather than the Eocene of Morocco. I may very well be wrong. You might be interested in this TFF thread on trying to differentiate the two:

 

 

It is a fascinating topic isn't it! In a way, I wish evolution was far more abrupt, as in here is the cut off for Cretalamna, from now on it's Otodus only. Unfortunately, not the way it works and the fact Otodus evolved from Cretalamna, then the 2 co-existed long after makes it just that little bit more interesting.  

Your ID on #4 may actually be correct.... the more I look at it, the more I feel it doesn't quite "fit" Otodus. The shadows don't help too. 

As for the size making it fit Cretalamna.... I have some very small Otodus teeth, just over 20mm on slant height. I'll admit though, it is way more common to find them in shops much larger than that (30-50mm)