njcreekhunter Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Hey everyone. I found this bone at a creek in New Jersey known for its Cretaceous fossils. It's very dense and heavy. I am having trouble finding an exact match to this bone and would love to hear your opinions on it. Thanks for your help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Limb bone from a marine reptile is where I would look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 @Rockwood That's what I was thinking as well. The Shape confuses me a bit though. The circled area is the the natural edge of the bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Must from distally in a paddle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 @sharktoothboy Can you post additional photos? The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 @JohnJ Sure, Here are some additional photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 @sharktoothboy Thank you! Placing it on a flat surface would also help with the other views. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 @JohnJ Hope these help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 @sharktoothboy Ahh...much better! Thank you. @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboe101 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 In my opinion, this looks to be a part of the pelvic girdle of a plesiosaur. I believe its the medial end of a plesiosaur ilium. I would look at related taxa in the Navesink formation for a definitive ID. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jersey Devil Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, eboe101 said: In my opinion, this looks to be a part of the pelvic girdle of a plesiosaur. I believe its the medial end of a plesiosaur ilium. I would look at related taxa in the Navesink formation for a definitive ID. Looks like this is another piece of Plesiosaur or Mosasaur pelvic or pectoral girdle bone. Edited September 20, 2021 by The Jersey Devil 1 “You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 9 hours ago, eboe101 said: In my opinion, this looks to be a part of the pelvic girdle of a plesiosaur. I believe its the medial end of a plesiosaur ilium. I would look at related taxa in the Navesink formation for a definitive ID. I'm also getting a plesiosaur vibe here. Fantastic fossil! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 So is it from the Navesink or other NJ cretaceous formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Interesting! I definitely see similarities to a plesiosaur ilium. I was getting a marine reptile vibe from it also. When I first found it I thought it was a plesiosaur femur. I emailed Dr. David Schwimmer about it and this was his response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 @Plax It's from either the Wenonah or Navesink formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Sorry for arriving to the party late, guys! Somehow the mention must have flown under the radar... Anyway this is a beautiful, if puzzling, specimen! Well done on finding it! I'm having quite a bit of difficulty placing it, though. For, on the one hand the short and rounded form (a bit broke off next to the "natural edge" OP mentioned above, meaning the bone would've originally been a bit more rounded in that area) doesn't particularly remind me of any plesiosaur or mosasaur bone, girdle or otherwise. The thing is, there are very few bones that turn in on themselves like that, but none of this shape. Similarly, the cancelous bone visible in the middle isn't typical for marine reptiles either - which bones are typically more osteosclerotic - with the only place I know of it occurring being the shaft of plesiosaur podials. Yet this piece is clearly too small and rounded for that explanation. Yet at the same time the bone also seems to pachyostic, may be, for a terrestrial origin... That having been said, I did recieve a bit of dinosaur bone from the IoW once when I was a kid that is similarly pachyostic, but not quite osteosclerotic. It was described to me as theropod limb bone. Not saying this is as well, but may be a dinosaurian origin would indeed not be that far-, fetched... 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 25, 2021 Author Share Posted September 25, 2021 @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Thank you for your help! This was very informative. My friend mentioned turtle as a possibility, specifically the species Atlantochelys. Im curious what you think about this. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 5 hours ago, sharktoothboy said: @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Thank you for your help! This was very informative. My friend mentioned turtle as a possibility, specifically the species Atlantochelys. Im curious what you think about this. Thanks again! Unfortunately I know next to nothing about turtle anatomy, let alone histology... And while the extrapolated shape of your find seems a superficial match for something like the distal end of a turtle podial, say a humerus, there are two issues with this idea: first you'd still have this hook/natural end on one end of the bone, which doesn't quite fit a turtle humerus either, but, more importantly, you've got a clear and thickened articulation surface at the "complete end" of your specimen. This surface is too prominent for the distal end of a podial. I'm therefore more inclined to give credence to Dr. Schwimmer's explanation... 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 4 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: Unfortunately I know next to nothing about turtle anatomy, let alone histology... And while the extrapolated shape of your find seems a superficial match for something like the distal end of a turtle podial, say a humerus, there are two issues with this idea: first you'd still have this hook/natural end on one end of the bone, which doesn't quite fit a turtle humerus either, but, more importantly, you've got a clear and thickened articulation surface at the "complete end" of your specimen. This surface is too prominent for the distal end of a podial. I'm therefore more inclined to give credence to Dr. Schwimmer's explanation... I see, thank you! I'm glad I can rule out a few possibilities now and it's really exciting that it may be dinosaur. Thanks again for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 Just a bit of an update. I emailed Dr. Ken Carpenter about this specimen and he believes it is a right transverse process from a posterior dorsal vertebra of a dinosaur. Most likely a hadrosaur though he can't be certain of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Cool! So it does indeed seem like a bit of terrestrial bone - and East Coast dinosaur, no less! I think congratulations are in order 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Sorry, I'm just not seeing a dinosaur here. You should show this to Dr. David Parris at the New Jersey State Museum. No one knows NJ Cretaceous reptiles better than him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcreekhunter Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 15 hours ago, Carl said: Sorry, I'm just not seeing a dinosaur here. You should show this to Dr. David Parris at the New Jersey State Museum. No one knows NJ Cretaceous reptiles better than him. Just sent him an email. Do you have any ideas on what the bone might be? This piece has been driving me crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, sharktoothboy said: Just sent him an email. Do you have any ideas on what the bone might be? This piece has been driving me crazy I'm still seeing a plesiosaur. Sadly, I don't know any of these groups (mosasaurs, dinosaurs, plesosaurs, turtles, crocs) in a detailed enough way to say definitively. But I've seen enough bits and pieces to get a strong gut feeling. I'd be thrilled for you if it turned into any of those, and it is clearly one of them. I eagerly await word from the oracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 I finally remembered why I keep thinking plesiosaur. Here is a plesiosaur coracoid Ralph Johnson found in Big Brook back in 2009. I think you'll notice some similarities. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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