procurator Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Permian amphibian jaw found by me this year. Place:Russia, Perm Territory, location "Perskiye Kluchiki". Age: middle perminan upper kazan or ufa layer I have a description of the location (careful, Russian!) https://sciencejournals.ru/cgi/getPDF.pl?jid=palrus&year=2020&vol=2020&iss=3&file=PalRus2003015Sinichenkova.pdf I would be very grateful for any help in determining 1 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Excellent find! Thanks for sharing it. @jdp 1 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Stunning specimen! 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 @dinodigger 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I think this is actinopterygian, not temnospondyl, based on the sculpture and the apparent absence of postdentary bones. How big is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procurator Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 Quote I think this is actinopterygian, not temnospondyl, based on the sculpture and the apparent absence of postdentary bones. How big is it? Thank you very much for your reply! Jaw size about 8cm I can take additional photos if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procurator Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 There are also finds from there, presumably a discosaurisk. While the find is in the process of preparation, so I do not post it for definition on the forum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marguy Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 @procurator Have you considered a Melosaurus mandible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 It's not Melosaurus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 22 hours ago, procurator said: There are also finds from there, presumably a discosaurisk. While the find is in the process of preparation, so I do not post it for definition on the forum I'm really interested in seeing this once it's prepared 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procurator Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, marguy said: @procurator Have you considered a Melosaurus mandible? I'm not an expert. But I can see in the picture teeth pressed tightly to each other. On my jaw, the teeth are far apart. Perhaps I'm wrong, and this is the upper jaw, on the lower jaw, differently https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Melosaurus-compilatus-sp-nov-a-fragment-of-maxillare-from-below-b-anterior-fragment_fig3_260423716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 The pustulate sculpture next t the teeth and the tight linear sculpture lower down on the jaw is definitely actinopterygian (paleonisciform), and the teeth seem to have acrodin caps, which cinches it. I'm not familiar with the actinopts of the Ufa fauna, but that would be a good place to start, particularly acrolepids like Kazanichthys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procurator Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 12 hours ago, jdp said: the pustulate sculpture next t the teeth and the tight linear sculpture lower down on the jaw is definitely actinopterygian (paleonisciform) and the teeth seem to have acrodin caps, which cinches it. I'm not familiar with the actinopts of the Ufa fauna but that would be a good place to start, particularly acrolepids like Kazanichthys. I am confused by the very large size of the jaw - 8 cm. Such huge fish are not known from there. Perhaps something undescribed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I think Jdp is right ,but I base this hypothesis ONLY on morphology. Acrolepid, a bit like namaichtys. Edited, purely coincidentally after Procurators response. The link below is to the whole issue(about 35,MB https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/49687221#page/29/mode/1up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I think your original thought was "embolomere"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/15/2021 at 5:56 PM, procurator said: Permian amphibian jaw found by me this year. Place:Russia, Perm Territory, location "Perskiye Kluchiki". Age: middle perminan upper kazan or ufa layer I have a description of the location (careful, Russian!) https://sciencejournals.ru/cgi/getPDF.pl?jid=palrus&year=2020&vol=2020&iss=3&file=PalRus2003015Sinichenkova.pdf I would be very grateful for any help in determining Wow! 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 You may like: Stratigraphic correlation of the Upper Permian deposits from the south of the Cis-Ural marginal Trough and the adjacent areas of the Russian Plate Ijia I. MOLOSTOVSKAYA GEODIVERSITAS • 1997 • 19(2) Purely looking at size: Khonzukhovia * But don't quote me on that. *Principally known from South America. g1997n2a9.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procurator Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, doushantuo said: You may like(about 30 MB): Stratigraphic correlation of the Upper Permian deposits from the south of the Cis-Ural marginal Trough and the adjacent areas of the Russian Plate Ijia I. MOLOSTOVSKAYA GEODIVERSITAS • 1997 • 19(2) thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 4 hours ago, procurator said: I am confused by the very large size of the jaw - 8 cm. Such huge fish are not known from there. Perhaps something undescribed Certainly possible. There are some extremely large actinopts from this time interval (jaws up to ~30 cm in some cases) so 8 cm isn't insane. If it doesn't line up with anything previously described, it might make sense to make sure this ends up at the PIN where it can be studied. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 hours ago, doushantuo said: You may like: Stratigraphic correlation of the Upper Permian deposits from the south of the Cis-Ural marginal Trough and the adjacent areas of the Russian Plate Ijia I. MOLOSTOVSKAYA GEODIVERSITAS • 1997 • 19(2) Purely looking at size: Khonzukhovia * But don't quote me on that. *Principally known from South America. g1997n2a9.pdf 4.8 MB · 3 downloads Definitely not Konzhukovia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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