Guns Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 When it come to small teeth i always have a problem differentiate spinosaur tooth from croc tooth . I need a bit of help ID this 2 two . all from Kem Kem basin . both unserrated . thanks in advance Guns tooth 1 : Rooted tooth This photo is aim to show the striations and cutting edge on this tooth Here some close up photo... tooth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I believe both are Spinosaurid. The vertical ridges, triangular crown shape and straight root root of the first one are tipoffs for me. Croc roots are typically curved. Same with the other one. Both very nice teeth especially the rooted one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Agree with the above assessment, and both are very nice acquisitions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guns Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Troodon said: I believe both are Spinosaurid. The vertical ridges, triangular crown shape and straight root root of the first one are tipoffs for me. Croc roots are typically curved. Same with the other one. Both very nice teeth especially the rooted one Woo...feel relieved now ..Thank you so much! at first I am so worry that those 2 two might be a croc tooth . 1 hour ago, lesofprimus said: Agree with the above assessment, and both are very nice acquisitions.... thank you for the input ! very appreciated . Regard Guns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Those are very nice teeth. The first tooth is preserved like one of mine I like it a lot. I hope this isn’t considered hijacking since you got yours Id’d already and I want to share mine that is preserved similar. tooth 1: 1.85 inches should be croc tooth? tooth 2: 4.2 inches should be spinosaurus? Now I’m wondering with the curved root? Before I thought the curve like this meant it was spinosaurus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Guns said: When it come to small teeth i always have a problem differentiate spinosaur tooth from croc tooth . I need a bit of help ID this 2 two . all from Kem Kem basin . both unserrated . thanks in advance Guns tooth 1 : Rooted tooth This photo is aim to show the striations and cutting edge on this tooth Here some close up photo... tooth 2 Beautiful teeth, love the rooted one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, DenverEdge said: Those are very nice teeth. The first tooth is preserved like one of mine I like it a lot. I hope this isn’t considered hijacking since you got yours Id’d already and I want to share mine that is preserved similar. tooth 1: 1.85 inches should be croc tooth? tooth 2: 4.2 inches should be spinosaurus? Now I’m wondering with the curved root? Before I thought the curve like this meant it was spinosaurus. Not sure that root is real, looks like its been added. You should post both these teeth in another topic to get feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiros Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 In the last one the root is a little suspicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, DenverEdge said: Those are very nice teeth. The first tooth is preserved like one of mine I like it a lot. I hope this isn’t considered hijacking since you got yours Id’d already and I want to share mine that is preserved similar. tooth 1: 1.85 inches should be croc tooth? tooth 2: 4.2 inches should be spinosaurus? Now I’m wondering with the curved root? Before I thought the curve like this meant it was spinosaurus. That root has been added on the Spino tooth and will need addition photos on the first tooth. Might be croc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) I’m pretty certain the first is croc it came from a reliable seller and looks croc to me. Mostly just wanted to share the similar preservation to the the original poster’s rooted tooth. 52 minutes ago, Troodon said: That root has been added on the Spino tooth and will need addition photos on the first tooth. Might be croc. Are you sure the entire root is added on the Spino tooth? I thought that possibility but I examined it under a microscope and the lines match up from the base of the enamel to the base of the root on the front side. The back side is either added or gap filled and restored - I’m leaning towards the latter. I just noticed I did not post any pictures of the front side in my original post. I should have mentioned that earlier. And sorry next time I’ll just make a new post. Once I get better pictures I’ll do that. Edited October 17, 2021 by DenverEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Yes pretty sure, the shape of spinosaurid roots do not look like that. A portion of the root by the crown may be real but the majority was added, see photo. Also just compare the profile of yours to the one Guns in the OP . here are a couple from my collection 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guns Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 16 hours ago, DenverEdge said: I hope this isn’t considered hijacking since you got yours Id’d already and I want to share mine that is preserved similar. no problem at all mate ! thank you 14 hours ago, TyBoy said: Beautiful teeth, love the rooted one. Hi there ! thank you . one of the best tooth in my small collection . regard Guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Troodon said: Yes pretty sure, the shape of spinosaurid roots do not look like that. A portion of the root by the crown may be real but the majority was added, see photo. Also just compare the profile of yours to the one Guns in the OP . here are a couple from my collection Wonder how they did it to where I cannot find a seam or glued area on the front side of the tooth under 60x magnification… oh well at least it’s done that well that I can’t tell thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) For example this croc tooth you can see the tip was reattached where the gap fill is. simply cannot find that on the front of the spino tooth in question even in the slightest. . This way I can spot this stuff in the future. Most the rooted spino teeth for sale I can clearly see where the root is attached. Does this picture show the attached area? Edit: I looked at it again under 60x magnification and there is no way the front half of the root was added and it does have the right profile. The back half and side of the root WAS added however. Edited October 18, 2021 by DenverEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Its not really a composite but a glue mix made up of whatever and shaped to look like a root. They try to match the color but rarely succeed like you tooth, its two different shades. Roots should have a bit of luster, tapered and hollow. Most, not all have an indentation along the length where the replacement tooth sits you can see that on my left tooth.. Post any future interest here and we can look at them before you buy. Please dont trust what any seller or collector tells you. Verify, verify everything especially if it comes from Morocco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 The seller didn’t say anything I didn’t ask I just picked it out due to price and it looked much better compared to all the other “rooted” teeth. Under microscope it looks like typical crystallized bone structure at least on the front in the last photo. The other sides of the tooth I totally see what you are talking about. That’s why I am so confused. Thanks for the help. I’ll be looking for a decent priced on that’s better I’ll post here before buying. You gotta buy stuff quick before it sells from my usual online dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) Histology of spinosaurid dinosaur teeth from the Albian-Cenomanian of Morocco: Implications for tooth replacement and ecology Nicola S. Heckeberg and Oliver W. M. Rauhut spinosaupalelec1041.pdf Edited October 18, 2021 by doushantuo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Unfortunately lots of sellers are not adequately knowledgeable in what they are selling. Many just get product from others and flip it. Why we are here to help and educate. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Troodon said: Unfortunately lots of sellers are not adequately knowledgeable in what they are selling. Many just get product from others and flip it. Why we are here to help and educate. For sure I get most this stuff at the Denver show and I don’t even ask dealers anything anymore I just use the little knowledge I do have. For example I’ll be sharing the mosasaur jaws I had verified by Prefactus soon on here - no restoration got them from 20 dollars each from a Moroccan I buy from each year. Every year I ask him what the mosasaur pieces are just for fun and he tells me they are fish. The lack of knowledge from this dealer works in my favor (he doesn’t speak enough English for me to explain to him what he actually has) I still don’t think this entire root is added on as I can see the agatized bone structure (I’m very familiar with agatized fossil bone living right next to Morrison formation). So I’m trusting my own judgement on that. I’ll try to get pictures that show what I’m seeing but I won’t be able to get a camera hooked up to the 60x microscope I’m using. but yes for sure they did restore/add on at least half of the root. Edited October 18, 2021 by DenverEdge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverEdge Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I should add it is missing almost all of the enamel on the bottom 1-2 centimeters of the crown so maybe that is why it is throwing people off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Here's the only truly rooted Spino tooth I own which has been worked over pretty good. George Corneille has confirmed it for me, however, Troodon I'd like your opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, lesofprimus said: Here's the only truly rooted Spino tooth I own which has been worked over pretty good. George Corneille has confirmed it for me, however, Troodon I'd like your opinion.... George is one of the few "very few" folks out there that I would trust to properly identify what a good Spinosaurid tooth with root would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesofprimus Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Troodon said: George is one of the few "very few" folks out there that I would trust to properly identify what a good Spinosaurid tooth with root would be. Very kind words.... He actually holds you in very high regard as well, and recommended me asking your opinion as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 3 hours ago, lesofprimus said: Here's the only truly rooted Spino tooth I own which has been worked over pretty good. George Corneille has confirmed it for me, however, Troodon I'd like your opinion.... Haha what?! I've never seen something quite like this. This is a composite of two tooth crowns stuck together. No root is included here at all. The longitudinal ridges and carinae are all visible on both ends! Even the dentine is visible on the tip in that last photo. Definitely a fake, but holy cow what a weird one. I'm speechless. Just incredible! 1 2 2 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 48 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said: Haha what?! I've never seen something quite like this. This is a composite of two tooth crowns stuck together. No root is included here at all. The longitudinal ridges and carinae are all visible on both ends! So yeah, definitely a fake. The audacity! Just incredible! Wow you may have a point here I was wondering what the ridges were in the root section and the overall shape was a bit odd. The only explanation is yours. Never even considered that as a possibility. Incredible indeed. Good eye and definitely one for the books. What the Moroccan will do to sell teeth. Good to have lots of eyes on these teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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