Bob Hickerson Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) Found in the Peace River, Florida yesterday. Appears to be a tooth. ID Please?? Edited October 29, 2021 by Bob Hickerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Mastodon ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 We need to see a picture of the chewing surface straight down onto it. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: We need to see a picture of the chewing surface straight down onto it. I don't think that is going to be possible. Do you see it there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 @Rockwood I see it at an oblique angle. Looking straight down might help. More information is always better than less. 1 3 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rockwood said: I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's missing. So, you believe that the chewing surface of this tooth is damaged or worn off? What harm is there in asking for a photo of the damaged, worn off, or missing chewing surface? I am far from believing that this is Mastodon.. I might be convinced if we can see the chewing surface . Jack 3 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hickerson Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 Here is a view of the chewing surface: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 37 minutes ago, Rockwood said: I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's missing. Me too. That's why I asked to see it. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bob Hickerson said: Here is a view of the chewing surface: Bob, I should have said this 1st. Welcome to TFF. It is a fantastic fossil resource and full of friendly people including Florida fossil hunters who hunt the Peace River. I love your tooth !!! It is amazing. It might be Mastodon or Gomphothere, but I think I am voting for Dugong. Let's see what the consensus of the many knowledge experts on Florida is.... Jack 1 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 It appears to be a well-worn Sus scrofa (domestic pig) second lower molar (m2). 2 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Shellseeker said: So, you believe that the chewing surface of this tooth is damaged or worn off? What harm is there in asking for a photo of the damaged, worn off, or missing chewing surface? I am far from believing that this is Mastodon.. I might be convinced if we can see the chewing surface . Jack Yes I thought it was gone. Obviously I was wrong. I'm glad things worked out well in spite of my blunder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hickerson Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 11 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: It appears to be a well-worn Sus scrofa (domestic pig) second lower molar (m2). Hello Harry, I admit that there are similarities with the domestic pig molars but, comparing them side by side, there are significant differences in the angles and lengths of the roots. Is this an acceptable allowance of differences in the fossil ID process? Remember, I am new here. Not challenging your ID, just trying to understand the process. Also, would ours be considered a relative of what is now the "domestic pig"? If so, what would it have been? Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Welcome to the Forum, Bob. Your "side by side" illustration is actually an "end by side" comparison. Have I provided with my image a perfect match? No. The appearance of the occlusal surface changes substantially with wear. I had to decide which pig molar you had, m2 or M1, but I have no severely worn M1 for comparison. (I am still somewhat prejudiced toward M1 because of the root structure of your find.) There are no close relatives of Sus scrofa to be found as a fossil in the Peace River . . . or in Florida . . . or in the New World. Sus is an import from the Old World. (Peccaries are not pigs.) Feral pigs are common in the Peace River Valley, and the teeth are not uncommon finds when fossil hunting. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hickerson Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said: Welcome to the Forum, Bob. Your "side by side" illustration is actually an "end by side" comparison. Have I provided with my image a perfect match? No. The appearance of the occlusal surface changes substantially with wear. I had to decide which pig molar you had, m2 or M1, but I have no severely worn M1 for comparison. (I am still somewhat prejudiced toward M1 because of the root structure of your find.) There are no close relatives of Sus scrofa to be found as a fossil in the Peace River . . . or in Florida . . . or in the New World. Sus is an import from the Old World. (Peccaries are not pigs.) Feral pigs are common in the Peace River Valley, and the teeth are not uncommon finds when fossil hunting. OK Harry, thanks for the additional information on our find. Is it possible that this molar is from a Tapir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 It's possible. We'd need an occlusal view of the teeth. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hickerson Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said: It's possible. We'd need an occlusal view of the teeth. Got it, but since this specimen is so well worn, we won't have it, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 No, the Sus molar is not from a tapir. I assumed you were asking about the two teeth in the post to which I responded. Those are the teeth which require an occlusal view. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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