Blancan fossils

[Shellseeker]

I know of a Blancan site where Blancan fauna represent more than 80 % of the finds. The rest of the finds seem to be early Equus.

Quote

The Blancan North American Stage on the geologic timescale is the North American faunal stage according to the North American Land Mammal Ages chronology, typically set from 4,750,000 to 1,806,000 years BP, a period of. It is usually considered to start in the early-mid Pliocene Epoch and end by the early Pleistocene. The Blancan is preceded by the Hemphillian and followed by the Irvingtonian NALMA stages.

You never know what you might find. I went there recently with a good friend after the deep water levels had subsided. Some of these fossils he found and some are my finds. To be successful in identifying fossils,  it is important to understand the scientific age of the fossil you find in the same location. There are no Megs at this site and layer,  not even fragments. The consensus seems to be that Megs went extinct 3-4 MYAs.  There is some mixture, but unlike the Peace River,  it is almost insignificant..

 

 

 

The Blancan is divided into two subintervals: the Bl1 from 4.75 to 2.6 million years ago; and the Bl2 from 2.6 to 1.6 million years ago.

The Bl1 does include the earliest known occurrences in Florida of Carcharodon carcharias and the last known occurrences of the sharks Carcharocles megalodon, Carcharodon hastalis, and Hemiprisitis serra, the baleen whale Balaenoptera cortesii (= Balaenoptera floridana), the walrus Ontocetus emmonsi, and the dugong Corystosiren varguezi.

 

Why significant ?  Well that is an antler tip up there and it almost certainly belonged to a an Artiodactyl, but which one? Might it be from Capromeryx as opposed to a white tail deer? Odocoilius virginianus.

Index species for the Bl2 in Florida: Chelydra floridana, Phalacrocorax filyawi, Titanis walleri, Megalonyx leptostomus, Paramylodon garbanii, Sigmodon minor, Sigmodon medius, Sigmodon curtisi, Ondatra idahoensis, Castor californicus, Peromyscus hagermanensis, Erethizon poyeri, Erethizon kleini, Borophagus diversidens, Canis lepophagus, Trigonictis macrodon, Chasmaporthetes ossifragus, Platygonus bicalcaratus, Hemiauchenia blancoensis, Hemiauchenia gracilis, Capromeryx arizonensis, Nannippus peninsulatus, Tapirus lundeliusi, and Rhynchotherium praecursor

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I am not trying to ID the antler, but I do have one fossil I am interested in a verification and 2 fossils for my hunting friend.

Mine I believe to be Neohipparion eurystyle and would like to have confirmation.

 

The 2nd is a small canine.  I have great difficulty differentiating raccoon from possum from from skunk in the Pleistocene.  He thought this was dolphin,  I think it is land mammal. It is 27.5 mm in length and has a ridge in the enamel just above the root. Thoughts on Land versus marine mammal ?

 

Finally,  I have never seen a fossil like this one.  and I have little hope of identifying.... I think it is marine and the reason you have all this background.  I am trying to depend on those TFF members from up north...  @MarcoSr @Al Dente@siteseer@Northern Sharks @sixgill pete That bottom photo makes it look like a Vertebra... could it be the crest of a fish ? 30 mm in length.   Please help. I am out of my league.    Jack

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Shellseeker
typos

[siteseer]

Hi Jack,

 

Yeah, experienced Florida collectors get excited about going to a Blancan spot because that's the age for finding Titanis remains.  I am told that a few collectors would rather find a Titanis toe bone than a Smilodon one.  I think Titanis is known only from a couple of northern Florida sites but I would think there's a chance of finding something farther south.

 

I'll call Fossillarry and see if he's seen your Neohipparion tooth.  He might have something to say about the Blancan as well.

 

Jess

[Al Dente]

1 hour ago, Shellseeker said:

That bottom photo makes it look like a Vertebra.

Looks like three fused fish vertebrae.

[Shellseeker]

46 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Looks like three fused fish vertebrae.

Thanks,

I am unfamiliar with these. Do these exist (either singles or multiples) in Maryland, North Carolina, etc Any reference appreciated.

54 minutes ago, siteseer said:

Hi Jack,

 

Yeah, experienced Florida collectors get excited about going to a Blancan spot because that's the age for finding Titanis remains.  I am told that a few collectors would rather find a Titanis toe bone than a Smilodon one.  I think Titanis is known only from a couple of northern Florida sites but I would think there's a chance of finding something farther south.

 

I'll call Fossillarry and see if he's seen your Neohipparion tooth.  He might have something to say about the Blancan as well.

 

Jess

Jess,

Thank you. I will appreciate Fossillarry's comments.. I have never looked at Titanis bones and will have to familiarize myself with them.

[Plantguy]

Hey Jack, very neat finds! I like the horse stuff but Im intrigued by the association of the different types of finds you are finding. The fish verts caught my eye especially as I had found a few partials years ago and started to track down an ID but got sidetracked as usual on other stuff and never pursued it. With the variability between position in the vert column I was clueless--I was hoping for snook but that was just a wild guess. Here's a picture of a couple of them--I dont have any that are fused. I think I have some others that were possible tarpon...

In my search I had gone thru the fish images in the Geology and Paleontology of the Lee Creek Mine, NC (Yorktown stuff) they had at the time. I'm guessing you already have that doc. There are several articles/volumes published on various critters from there and the one that I was using was Vol III that had the shark tooth stuff in it as well. I can provide a link if you need it...There also wasnt much in the FL fossil Vert db under Class=osteichthyes that have actual images....but some. 

 

Good luck with the search. Keep us posted. 

Regards, Chris 

[Al Dente]

18 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Do these exist (either singles or multiples) in Maryland, North Carolina, etc Any reference appreciated.

 

Here are some fused fish vertebrae from a couple publications. The black and white photos are from the Smithsonian publication of Lee Creek volume 3. The color ones are from the NC Fossil Club publication on Fossil Fish. The first black and white photo is Aluterus, the second Merluccius.

[Al Dente]

Here’s a fused vertebrae from my collection. This one is from the Pliocene Yorktown Formation, NC. No idea what species. Side view, top view and both ends. The scale is millimeters.

 

 

[Harry Pristis]

These were identified as Neohipparion eurystyle by Hulbert:

 

[Shellseeker]

4 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

These were identified as Neohipparion eurystyle by Hulbert:

Thanks, Harry. Did Richard happen to identify tooth  position? I focus on your left tooth since it is closed in size.  Lots of similarities beyond just size. but there are differences also (general shape of the protocone).

The most common small horse at this site is Nannippus peninsulatus. I have found N. Eurystyle at this Blancan site previously and at a Miocene site,  but those resemble your teeth protocones more than my newest one here.

Also note that this was a very old small horse.  Crown height= 15 mm. Guess I better send it to Richard Hulbert.

[Shellseeker]

6 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Here’s a fused vertebrae from my collection. This one is from the Pliocene Yorktown Formation, NC. No idea what species. Side view, top view and both ends. The scale is millimeters.

Thank you for providing leads I might follow !!!

I have a number of these "fused vertebrae" from this Blancan site.  I had thought that they were pathological.

 

This following photo has a number of similarities to the one/three I found>

 

8 hours ago, Plantguy said:

There also wasn't much in the FL fossil Vert db under Class=osteichthyes that have actual images....but some. 

Thanks Chris for the info.  I am especially interested in the one on the far right of your photo... Where did you find yours ?  Do you have a thought on possible Age of layers your were digging?

 

 

[Plantguy]

Does have a similar look to it but I dont know fish verts but am & still wanting to know. From Manatee county many years ago. Geologic Map says Peace River Formation of the Hawthorne Group. I think Plio-Pleistocene--No megs/fragladons but that could just be my luck--no greenish clay layers. Dark gray/sands/mildly fossiliferous--seems mostly marine/small shark/ray teeth...

Wish I had more definitive info for you. 

Regards, Chris 

[Shellseeker]

58 minutes ago, Plantguy said:

Geologic Map says Peace River Formation of the Hawthorne Group. I think Plio-Pleistocene--No megs/fragladons but that could just be my luck--no greenish clay layers. Dark gray/sands/mildly fossiliferous--seems mostly marine/small shark/ray teeth...

Wish I had more definitive info for you. 

Regards, Chris 

That's good enough Chris,

Dark gray/sands/mildly fossiliferous

No megs/fragladons

Dark gray/sands/mildly fossiliferous

mostly marine/small shark/ray teeth

 

Amazing how it sounds so similar.....

[abyssunder]

On 10/31/2021 at 3:49 AM, Shellseeker said:

 

I have a number of these "fused vertebrae" from this Blancan site.  I had thought that they were pathological.

 

This specimen looks like a hyperostosed vertebra or hyperostosed fused vertebrae.

[Family Fun]

Always learning with Jack’s finds.  He finds more stuff he can’t ID and he knows his stuff than I find on a trip. 
 

well done again Jack

 

Rick

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Family Fun said:

Always learning with Jack’s finds.  He finds more stuff he can’t ID and he knows his stuff than I find on a trip. 
 

well done again Jack

 

Rick

Thanks , Rick

I am very fortunate.

1) Retired

2) Understandig spouse

3) Living in Florida which has numerous fossil hunting opportunities..

I get out 3 times a week usually to 2 or 3  different locations,  mostly water but occasionally land hunting. I would estimate that I am finding about 500-1000 fossils a week. The vast majority are small shark teeth, but usually some mammal fossils also. Knowing 95% of the fossils still leaves a few that I do not know and can ask for an ID.

Also , once I start a thread in Fossil ID,  I search the internet extensively. If I can isolate the type of animal and the approximate age of the hunting site,  there is a good possibility of getting an answer, especially with the high level of expertise in TFF members who help me.   Jack