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Petrified heart/liver??


Discogeochina

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Dear scientific community,

 

My name is Travis Montgomery, I am a geophysicist from Vancouver, Canada and am a recreational rock collector. I was scavenging around and looked down, and picked up what appears to be a pebble sized petrified organ (heart or liver) i know my rocks fairly well and it’s way too smooth/ large to be a well weathered piece of chert. So what now? Obviously a very rare piece, if it is even possible to silicify soft tissue. Please contact me directly if you are interested in more details

 

Regards,

 

Travis Montgomery, BSc

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Welcome to TFF from Austria!

 

(@Discogeochina, first of all, please remove your phone number and your email-address immediately. Thanks!) Done!

 

I am seeing a quartz-based rock here, something in the range of chert/jasper/chalcedony.

 

Franz Bernhard

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29 minutes ago, Discogeochina said:

it’s way too smooth/ large to be a well weathered piece of chert

Welcome to the Forum Travis.

 

It is not a fossil heart or liver. In the very rare cases of fossilization of soft organs the preservation is almost always a flattened impression or carbonization. I have never seen any fossilized liver or heart this large or 3-D.

 

Pieces of well polished chert this large and larger occur. In the San Francisco Bay Area region (California) you can find car sized pieces of Franciscan chert in the drainages. Rocky beaches also have large pieces.

Edited by DPS Ammonite
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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

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2 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I think it's the nature of chert to fracture in a form which is quite nearly smooth to begin with.

 

Chert fractures in a conchoidal pattern which is very different than what this polished cobble looks like.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchoidal_fracture

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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1 minute ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Chert fractures in a conchoidal pattern which is very different than what this polished cobble looks like.

But when you are dealing with vastly larger scales and fragment numbers the game changes dramatically.

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2 hours ago, Discogeochina said:

I know my rocks fairly well and it’s way too smooth/ large to be a well weathered piece of chert.

Why is this? Chert can be very large. Weathering by rolling around in waves with sand/currents of water, can easily produce this type of size and smoothness.

Water and sand do an amazing job of polishing over time. :headscratch::unsure:

I would think you would know this, as a geophysicist?

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    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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2 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

I would think you would know this, as a geophysicist?

 

My immediate thought as well.  

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"There is no shortage of fossils. There is only a shortage of paleontologists to study them." - Larry Martin

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@Discogeochina

 

Travis, I'm a chert fan; but I think this rock is a large piece of jasper or agate.  Being large and smooth is likely not a unique combination of features for rocks in Vancouver.  It might be an uncommon color, but that doesn't indicate a "petrified" organ.

 

Rocks can be weird, but still just rocks.

 

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The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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Welcome to the Forum, @Discogeochina!

 

I agree with all that has been said above. I think that you have a very nice tumbled stone, possibly jasper (definitely a keeper). While I see the resemblance to a body organ, such finds are extremely rare, and almost never fossilize in such a fashion. Also, the characteristics of your piece does not match that of an organ - the banding is completely random, and there are no signs of blood vessels or other features a petrified organ would show.

 

You might find this article interesting, it details the first proven fossilized heart found. As you may have noticed, the organ was found in association with an actual vertebrate fossil. Proving soft body preservation of any organ is a challenge even when it is found with a fossil, but when not found in association it would be practically impossible. Your specimen unfortunately does not show enough details to be proven, with it being waterworn making it even more difficult. Along with the fact that such fossils are extraordinarily rare, and have not been recorded from your area, we can safely assume that this is not a fossil. 

 

You live near a lot of extremely interesting fossil localities. Many of this forum's members have collected in this area before, looking through TFF will provide you with some pointers. Good luck, and happy hunting! :)

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The more I learn, the more I find that I know nothing. 

 

Regards, 

Asher 

 

 

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I'm in the jasper camp on this one. Beautiful specimen, regardless. Definitely not a fossil.

 

 

Mark.

 

Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them!

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Thanks for your input everyone. When it was found it really stuck out like a sore thumb. Is it not possible to maintain its structure to this degree if the tsunami or whatever event laid down a bed of clay rich sediments that encased it and thus was able to maintain its structure? Also found in association with it are the following pieces, appear to be petrified wood. Although the structure within certainly isn’t cubic or cylindrical. Comments?

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39 minutes ago, Discogeochina said:

Thanks for your input everyone. When it was found it really stuck out like a sore thumb, any ideas how much a sample like this is worth?

 

 

As it is against the rules, we don't give monetary appraisals on the Forum.  ;)

But, I can say, don't buy any Ferrari's just yet.  

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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19 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

 

As it is against the rules, we don't give monetary appraisals on the Forum.  ;)

But, I can say, don't buy any Ferrari's just yet.  

 

Rusty '62 VW's are also out of range.

 

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Mark.

 

Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them!

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Red piece is jasper (and a gorgeous one at that) and the white-ish curved/bubbly ones are chalcedony for sure (as @ynot suggested) I've collected a lot of that stuff in Arizona as well. Might want to check it with a black light. The Arizona stuff glows bright electric blue!

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I agree with @ynot

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"On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

"We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes."

 

In memory of Doren

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4 minutes ago, looc said:

 

Nope. This was resolved. Organs just don't preserve in the fossil record outside of some relatively dried out ones from more Pleistocene deposits in ice. This is as much an organ in terms of resemblance as any pitted rock is a dinosaur egg.

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...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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Not sure what this post has to do with the topic of this book.  :headscratch:

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Fin Lover

 

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My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs.

 

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31 minutes ago, looc said:

'he who destroys illusions in himself and others is punished by the ultimate tyrant, Nature.'"

 

 

Science proceeds strongly by falsification. A trip through the roots of empiricism and eventually through the works of Karl Popper will be very educational in terms of understanding how science operates.

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...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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