Scanning a dinosaurs braincase

[Welsh Wizard]

Following my post yesterday, I’ve had an excellent day at The Henry Royce Institute at Manchester University.

 

I’ve been trying to scan a dinosaur skull in a hard nodule, which is proving difficult due the density of the matrix. The scan data is being number crunched over night and hopefully I’ll get to see a 3D rendering of what’s in the nodule. If not then we will put a more powerful X Ray head on the machine and try again in the new year.

 

I also took along an iguanodon braincase from The Isle of Wight.

 

This is the 3D X Ray Tomography Scanner I used.

 

This is the braincase mounted ready for scanning.

 

This is the start of the scan. The dark area is the “brain area”. And the light area is the braincase.

 

 

The sample is sat on a mount and placed on a table. The table is then slowly rotated whilst numerous x rays are taken.

 

Each scan takes about 4 hours.

 

The data is made up of multiple slices through the sample. The data can then be stacked and manipulated to make 3D models or just show slices at specific points.

 

A very exciting day and it’s a big thank you from me to Tristan and Elizabeth at Henry Royce for all their help.

 

Further work to do.

[jpc]

cool project.  What sort of scanner is this?  It looks VERY different than any CT scanner I have ever worked with?  Is it a microCT?  

Edited November 23, 2021 by jpc

[jdp]

Very cool! Who do you have studying the specimen?

[Welsh Wizard]

17 minutes ago, jpc said:

cool project.  What sort of scanner is this?  It looks VERY different than any CT scanner I have ever worked with?  Is it a microCT?  

A Nikon 320 Large Envelope System.

 

https://www.nikonmetrology.com/en-gb/x-ray-ct/x-ray-ct-systems-configurable-large-envelope-systems

 

 I think it’s classed as micro ct 

[Welsh Wizard]

17 minutes ago, jdp said:

Very cool! Who do you have studying the specimen?

Just me at the moment.

[Ludwigia]

Beam me up Scotty!

[LordTrilobite]

Nice!

Besides the Iguanodon braincase, do you have any idea what type of skull it could be?

[jdp]

47 minutes ago, Welsh Wizard said:

Just me at the moment.

 

Want me to put you in touch with someone who might be able to work with you to publish this material? It sounds like these might be important specimens. I'm also happy to run a quick pass at the data myself just to help you get a look at what's inside.

 

[Welsh Wizard]

56 minutes ago, jdp said:

 

Want me to put you in touch with someone who might be able to work with you to publish this material? It sounds like these might be important specimens. I'm also happy to run a quick pass at the data myself just to help you get a look at what's inside.

 

thanks for the offer. Are you based in the U.K.?

[Welsh Wizard]

1 hour ago, LordTrilobite said:

Nice!

Besides the Iguanodon braincase, do you have any idea what type of skull it could be?

Hi Olaf.

 

Remember, it was you who identified it as a braincase. Thankyou for your help.

 

I have an idea what the skull is. It’s a bit battered but I’m pretty sure what it is.

[Welsh Wizard]

2 hours ago, jpc said:

cool project.  What sort of scanner is this?  It looks VERY different than any CT scanner I have ever worked with?  Is it a microCT?  

I forgot to say. Medical CT scanners are not very powerful and will not penetrate far into the specimen.

[jdp]

3 minutes ago, Welsh Wizard said:

thanks for the offer. Are you based in the U.K.?

 

No, I'm currently based in Canada, but digitally transferring the CT data is pretty easy.

[Welsh Wizard]

Just now, jdp said:

 

No, I'm currently based in Canada, but digitally transferring the CT data is pretty easy.

Thanks. I’ll find out tomorrow as I’ve had to purchase two hard drives this evening. Fingers crossed.

[LordTrilobite]

42 minutes ago, Welsh Wizard said:

Hi Olaf.

 

Remember, it was you who identified it as a braincase. Thankyou for your help.

 

I have an idea what the skull is. It’s a bit battered but I’m pretty sure what it is.

Yes, the Iguanodon braincase was quite distinctive. Glad to see you could get it scanned. And very interested to see what that other skull is.

I'd still be interested in segmenting the CT scans if you want.

[jdp]

3 hours ago, Welsh Wizard said:

Thanks. I’ll find out tomorrow as I’ve had to purchase two hard drives this evening. Fingers crossed.

 

Let me know when you have the files and I'll walk you through it. For non-archival purposes, it is relatively easy to convert the stack into a much smaller JPEG stack that can be transferred through Dropbox or Google drive.

[Tidgy's Dad]

Very interesting.

What exactly are you trying to establish? 

Just the size and shape of the brain or what it was used for? 

[FranzBernhard]

Super nice project, @Welsh Wizard!! Congrats for having access to such a machine!

 

This looks like a quite dangerous X-ray gun (320 kV its quite an accelerating voltage!) with a perhaps very pointy X-ray. So this is something @Tidgy's Dad might consider for his, ähem, we all know what....

 

21 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

or what it was used for

Tackling one of the most important questions of the universe!? This would be quite a project .

Franz Bernhard

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, FranzBernhard said:

 

This looks like a quite dangerous X-ray gun (320 kV its quite an accelerating voltage!) with a perhaps very pointy X-ray. So this is something @Tidgy's Dad might consider for his, ähem, we all know what....

 

[Welsh Wizard]

45 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Very interesting.

What exactly are you trying to establish? 

Just the size and shape of the brain or what it was used for? 

Hi Adam

 

im not sure yet. Just wanted to see if the scan would work. The braincase was in really pyritic rock and took me ages to extract. It’s interesting as you can see all the holes where the nerves went in.

 

For the skull, I’m trying to see what bones are in the nodule without prepping out.

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, Welsh Wizard said:

Hi Adam

 

im not sure yet. Just wanted to see if the scan would work. The braincase was in really pyritic rock and took me ages to extract. It’s interesting as you can see all the holes where the nerves went in.

 

For the skull, I’m trying to see what bones are in the nodule without prepping out.

Yes, this is great and could prove very useful in the study of dinosaur intelligence. 

Not that I know anything much about that, of course. 

Brachiopod intelligence is far more interesting to me. 

But they don't really have much at all. 

[R0b]

12 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Yes, this is great and could prove very useful in the study of dinosaur intelligence. 

Not that I know anything much about that, of course. 

Brachiopod intelligence is far more interesting to me. 

But they don't really have much at all. 

I always wonder about dinosaur intelligence. Were they like crows or more like pigeons.

 

Also interesting project appreciate that you keep us updated.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

30 minutes ago, Welsh Wizard said:

im not sure yet. Just wanted to see if the scan would work. The braincase was in really pyritic rock and took me ages to extract. It’s interesting as you can see all the holes where the nerves went in.

 

Sounds like it may be an especially well-preserved brain case then, which certainly would have the potential of greatly contributing to the study of dinosaur intelligence...! Fascinating project!

[Ludwigia]

2 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Brachiopod intelligence is far more interesting to me. 

But they don't really have much at all. 

 Well, when you take into consideration that they've been around a whole lot longer than we have, then maybe intelligence doesn't just have to do with brains But we've been debating this elsewhere haven't we?

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

Look who's hit the big time! Super super cool, can't wait to see the result, glad you had a good time.

[Welsh Wizard]

2 hours ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

Look who's hit the big time! Super super cool, can't wait to see the result, glad you had a good time.

Ha. Anyone can do it?