Jared C Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I have two teeth of what I think is the same species, and I just can't decide what they belong to. The best speciman is this one: It's found in a creek that exposes both the Ozan and possibly the underlying Dessau formation. I see no nutrient groove, making me eliminate Scapanorynchus Seemingly no enamel wrinkling, making me not think Cretodus (can Cretodus even be found in Ozan aged rocks? I've only really seen it being found in Eagle Ford...) I don't remember Cretoxyrhina mantelli having cusps anywhere in its dentistry Doesn't seem like the right shape for Cretolamna (can Cretolamna be found in strata this young as well? I've only ever found it in the Waco Pit) Obviosuly not Squalicorax... I'm stumped. What do ya'll think? “Not only is the universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think” -Werner Heisenberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norki Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Is Archaeolamna present in those deposits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Cretalamna made it to Maastrichtian, FYI. 2 1 Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 5 hours ago, Jared C said: I don't remember Cretoxyrhina mantelli having cusps anywhere in its dentistry FYI, from the Cretoxyrhina mantelli discussion in Welton Farish 1993 The Collector's Guide to Fossil Sharks and Rays from the Cretaceous of Texas "a single pair of short blade-like cusplets may develop on the extreme ends of the crown foot in some lateral and posterior, but not anterior, row groups;" The tooth is not from Cretoxyrhina mantelli. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notidanodon Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Was dwardius or cardabiodon present in this fauna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I would call it Cretolamna. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I normally stay out of shark tooth discussions because I'm not very good at them, but since all I'm doing here is adding to what more seasoned folks have said, it should not go too wrong for me - haha. I would agree with @Al Dente that it looks like a Cretolamna based on the Welton and Farish book and @Uncle Siphuncle is correct that the genus does extend from the Albian up into the Maestrichian so you are covered there. The erect cusp and pair of cusplets, along with no nutrient groove and the slight protuberance of the root all look a lot like the Cretolamna's figured in the book, specifically it looks more like a lower as the uppers seem to have a bit more of a slant to the cusp. A very nice looking tooth!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captcrunch227 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Yes this is definitely a Cretalamna. The only other teeth these really get confused with are goblin posteriors, which those have a nutrient groove and these don’t. But the teeth here in north central Texas that have that distinctive U shape in the root are gonna be one of those two. And by the way folks, it’s Cretalamna, not Cretolamna. It was an error in the book that didn’t get caught before going to print. I know this because my friend Roger Farish told me lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 22 hours ago, Captcrunch227 said: And by the way folks, it’s Cretalamna, not Cretolamna. It was an error in the book that didn’t get caught before going to print. Thank you for reminding me, I know I have heard this before but never remember it. I’m going to make a note in my book right now (and I’ll probably have to look and see if my database needs updated)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captcrunch227 Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 16 hours ago, ClearLake said: Thank you for reminding me, I know I have heard this before but never remember it. I’m going to make a note in my book right now (and I’ll probably have to look and see if my database needs updated)! For sure. I didn't know at all until I was showing off a display for my educational program at the Dallas Paleontological Society meeting and Roger corrected me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) On 12/23/2021 at 12:44 AM, Captcrunch227 said: And by the way folks, it’s Cretalamna, not Cretolamna. It was an error in the book that didn’t get caught before going to print. I know this because my friend Roger Farish told me lol. It’s actually the other way around - Glikman in his original description of the genus misspelled Cretolamna, which is the grammatically correct version, as Cretalamna and this error was taken up by some following authors. Now most publications use the accurate name - Cretolamna, like this for example. Although some use the original spelling too, so there is really no consensus Edited December 24, 2021 by Anomotodon The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captcrunch227 Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Anomotodon said: It’s actually the other way around - Glikman in his original description of the genus misspelled Cretolamna, which is the grammatically correct version, as Cretalamna and this error was taken up by some following authors. Now most publications use the accurate name - Cretolamna, like this for example And the plot thickens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackito Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 I'm watching from the sidelines on this discussion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 The proper spelling of Cretolamna has been brought up several times on The Fossil Forum. Here’s one discussion. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/70605-morocco-shark-tooth/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 I agree with @Al Dente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) @Al Dente was just looking at the picture again. Can you help me understand why it can’t be Archaeolamn? So many times certain teeth give me trouble if it archaeolamn versus Cretolamna. Edited December 25, 2021 by hokietech96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, hokietech96 said: @Al Dente was just looking at the picture again. Can you help me understand why it can’t be Archaeolamn? So many times certain teeth give me trouble if it archaeolamn versus Cretolamna. The triangular side cusps and more erect main cusp makes me think it is Cretolamna. Here are a couple tooth sets of Archaeolamna. Archaeolamna usually have a curve to the main cusp and the side cusps are more elongated. It is possible the tooth is a lower Archaeolamna. There are a couple lower teeth in the first tooth set that look similar. The first tooth set is from the shark-references.com website. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 @Al DenteThank you for the information. I always tend to lean towards archaeolamn versus cretolamna if the root seems more compact and slants to almost a buldge in the middle on the lingual side. If the labial side of the blade is slanted it up when I lean it up on the root I usually label it as Archaeolamna. I am still learning so I am not sure if it is this cut and dry. Here is my examples. All these teeth I found this summer at Big Brook: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 All the blades are pointed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 The one I circled looks like Archaeolamna. The broad one on the far right looks more like Cretolamna. More views of the other teeth might help with an ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Al Dente said: The one I circled looks like Archaeolamna. The broad one on the far right looks more like Cretolamna. More views of the other teeth might help with an ID. Edited December 26, 2021 by hokietech96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 I would call all of these Cretolamna, other than the one I circled. It would be interesting to hear what other NJ collectors think these are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 12/25/2021 at 5:56 AM, Anomotodon said: It’s actually the other way around - Glikman in his original description of the genus misspelled Cretolamna, which is the grammatically correct version, as Cretalamna and this error was taken up by some following authors. Now most publications use the accurate name - Cretolamna, like this for example. Although some use the original spelling too, so there is really no consensus The ones using Cretolamna are particularly Russian authors, Henri Cappetta, his former students and their coauthors. I use Cretalamna (needless to say) and so does eg Kenshu Shimada, David Ward, Charlie Underwood and many others. It's true that there is no consensus, in part because both I and Henri are very stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 12/25/2021 at 6:31 PM, Al Dente said: The proper spelling of Cretolamna has been brought up several times on The Fossil Forum. Here’s one discussion. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/70605-morocco-shark-tooth/ Well you missed the reply to that in Siversson et al.'s (2015) revision of Cretalamna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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