Could you help identify please?

[Sandfossil]

Found in Muskogee, Ok near the Arkansas river. I originally thought this was just a piece of rhyolite the pink popping through the light gray caught my eye. Thinking its a rock we cut it ooen. Thats when I noticed some patterns and vivid colors and decided to remove the matrix which was pretty fragile. This is what I have uncovered so far. I am thinking this is a type of sponge either a Solenopora or a Stromatoporoidea. And thank you for any help.

[strochim]

Wow! I have no idea if a fossil or not, but excellent colors and patterns in these rocks. Very cool.

[Thomas.Dodson]

I don't have a lot of experience with these but the ones I have seen have more distinct layering. Hopefully others have a better idea. Very pretty regardless.

[Ludwigia]

Can you give us any info on the stratigraphy and lithology of the location?

[abyssunder]

I can't see the laminae and pillars structure of stromatoporoids, but the specimen has some patterns close to lithophysa or agate.

Edited January 11, 2022 by abyssunder

[Sandfossil]

Good morning and thank you for the replies. I am a 55 year old grandma and mother to a 14 year old boy, go figure. I graduated high school at the age of 17 been a long time. So to even begin to respond to you I am having to look up the words to understand what is being conveyed. Almost like another language. My husband died 2 years ago so I found a wonderful hobby for me and my son to occupy our time. So we moved close to the Arkansas river so it is a very economical hobby. We just started looking for fossils in the last 3 months

But Muskogee County has sandhills and green hills and rugged mountains. There is sandstone, limestone and shale. The period is Carboniferous. I hope I got that right. Feel like theres going to be a big test later. lol But I am trying to expose the back side of the specimen using only a brush to see if there are columns and lastly if needed do a verical cut through the middle then it can be a puzzle. I did find a large Tabulate coral in the same area. What is weird is yesterday neighbor had a generator delivered but he needed me to accept the delivery as he is gone. While walking there I think I picked up something almost like the very thing we are discussing. I believe I see the columns and pillars someone had mentioned above. I need to wash it up and take pics. But thank you all again.

 

[Sandfossil]

So here are some more picks of the back side. I just used a brush on the back side which these are pics of. I haven't removed it all just enough to show you what I see. On the front I used a dremel because that was the side with the heavy matrix. What are the column looking things? Thank you.

[Sandfossil]

Here is that Tabulate coral I found the same day. 

[FranzBernhard]

Thanks for all your efforts to show us some more details. But still very difficult. These laminae and pillar are very small, I am not positive, but also not completely negative of stromatoporoid.

Franz Bernhard

[Sandfossil]

Here is the one I picked up in the pasture walking to the neighbors.  It looks like it may have had some imbedded shells and crinoids. It is missing about 1/2" thick laminae on one side. I read that they were like their own microecosystem and had as many as 30 species living within and on the stromatoporoid reefs. And sometimes shells would get lodged in the laminae folds but lived cohesively together.  They dominated at one time with rugose and tabulate coral, crinoids and bryzoans. Very interesting creature. Thanks again.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Sandfossil
forgot to add pics and wasn't finished with post.

[FranzBernhard]

12 hours ago, Sandfossil said:

 

 

Still not positive on stromatoporoid, but there are indeed also other fossils in this specimen.

Would be nice to have a small part of the above specimen cut and polished.

I also have some stromatoporoids around me, not very well preserved. You may find some examples in the thread linked below. These are usually not well preserved, more like blobs:

Some Fossils from the Plabutsch-Formation of the Palaeozoic of Graz, Styria, Austria (Devonian – Eifelian) - Member Collections - The Fossil Forum

Franz Bernhard

Edited January 13, 2022 by FranzBernhard

[Sandfossil]

10 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

 

Would be nice to have a small part of the above specimen cut and polished.

 

Franz Bernhard

Where should I cut it? Don't mind at all. Just need guidance on vertical horizontal cut and thickness.

Also I am a hoarder of rocks and fossils. lol I go looking everyday so walking along a hillside I found a group of rocks pushed upwards through the soil and some scattered about on the surface. Well lo and behold I think I got another one. They do look similiar. I think I need to go to my local college and speak with someone. Cause honestly never heard of these until I looking up a description round sea fossil and looked through tons of pics.  Here is a pic of the one I found yesterday. And thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

[FranzBernhard]

12 minutes ago, Sandfossil said:

Where should I cut it? Don't mind at all. Just need guidance on vertical horizontal cut and thickness.

Parallel to this natural, quite flat surface (= perpendicular to layering). A small piece, like the size of the red rectangle, is enough, if you would like to polish it. Thickness about 2 cm.

 

18 minutes ago, Sandfossil said:

I think I need to go to my local college and speak with someone.

Good idea! But don´t be disappointed, if they don´t know that much about it .

 

19 minutes ago, Sandfossil said:

Here is a pic of the one I found yesterday.

Looks also promising. Did you also find more tabulates?

Did you already mention the formation the specimens come from? So you could look up what was found there.

 

20 minutes ago, Sandfossil said:

And thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

You are welcome!

Franz Bernhard

[Sandfossil]

4 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

Parallel to this natural, quite flat surface (= perpendicular to layering). A small piece, like the size of the red rectangle, is enough, if you would like to polish it. Thickness about 2 cm.

The slice. 

 

 

 Did you also find more tabulates?

I have one that looks promising but haven't really examined it. It was spotted pinkish red on crystalline limestone.

Did you already mention the formation the specimens come from? So you could look up what was found there.

I am not really sure but I believe it to be Pennyslvanian. Boyd Formation. But I have found bracchiopods, crinoid plates archemedes and constichus. Which I thought were older. I don't know if waterways have anything to do with it But I am in an area where the Illinois and Arkansas rivers converge. 

Again Thank you Fran.

Cyndi

 

[FranzBernhard]

Now that was fast!

Looks good, some fossil bits seem to be in there. But what do you think, is this a stromatoporoid or something similar? 

Franz Bernhard

[Sandfossil]

17 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

Now that was fast!

Looks good, some fossil bits seem to be in there. But what do you think, is this a stromatoporoid or something similar? 

Franz Bernhard

Good day Fran. I didn't polish it cause I don't have the 50+ year old tumbler quute ready yet. I did try to sand it a little. 

Usually if I cut through sandstone it will be like a blank sheet no patterns and not a lot of color, even if it is colorful on the outside. Maybe a little sparkle when in the right light but usually nothing. However I do see some pattering and difference in color in the cut we did yesterday. I am going to show a cut of regular sandstone in our area. And then I am posting pics of the end piece I cut from yesterday I didn't post it. And I did cut one more slice because honestly I am not sure of what this is. I have looked at all the cross section slides I could find. But after looking at your stromas I don't believe them to be the same. Could it be a relative of a stroma? I wish I had more experience.

 

As far as it being an agate I have about 3,000 of them and nothing similar. I'm not giving up just yet. Do you believe it to be a sponge or??? 

Thanks again...went out again gonna post my other little finds to figure out what they might be. Its all like a giant puzzle of another time.

[FranzBernhard]

With all that tiny voids it looks like calcareous sandstone with a little bit of limonite, hence the brown color. You may try a drop of vinegar or muriatic/hydrochloric acid on it.

The last, grey one, looks quite homogenous, pic is also a little bit blurry. Yes, that could be regular sandstone. Does it react to acid?

 

7 hours ago, Sandfossil said:

I don't believe them to be the same. Could it be a relative of a stroma? I wish I had more experience.

 

As far as it being an agate I have about 3,000 of them and nothing similar. I'm not giving up just yet. Do you believe it to be a sponge or???

 

Sorry, nothing in that line, no "big organism". It looks like weathered, calcareous, somewhat limonitic sandstone. Some of the voids could be from weathered/dissolved fossils, though.

 

Here is another example, its much younger, just to give you one more idea how such things can look like in cross section and on the surface. Not properly IDed, of course .

 

Here are some polished Devonian ones:

 

 

Franz Bernhard

[Sandfossil]

9 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

With all that tiny voids it looks like calcareous sandstone with a little bit of limonite, hence the brown color. You may try a drop of vinegar or muriatic/hydrochloric acid on it.

The last, grey one, looks quite homogenous, pic is also a little bit blurry. Yes, that could be regular sandstone. Does it react to acid?

 

 

Sorry, nothing in that line, no "big organism". It looks like weathered, calcareous, somewhat limonitic sandstone. Some of the voids could be from weathered/dissolved fossils, though.

 

Here is another example, its much younger, just to give you one more idea how such things can look like in cross section and on the surface. Not properly IDed, of course .

 

Here are some polished Devonian ones:

 

 

Franz Bernhard

Fran they are beautiful!!! Thank you so much for sharing. 

All of this work for a rock may seem insignificant. But for me I am such a hands on person. I need to see it and feel it, they even have some strange odors when cleaning them. Its a very sensory thing. But its how I learn even if its figuring out what its NOT!

The science world seems very cut and dry. But very stingy with articles and identifying pictures. Seems like a secretive operation. lol But I am loving it. 

For many years I had lost passion for life. But now I feel like a kid in a candy store ready to get my hand in the jar. I love nature, I love life. Thank you for encouraging me onward. All over a rock.;)

Oh I am soaking the cut pieces in a bowl of vinegar. What is it suppose to be doing, eroding something? The sandstobe?

Have a lovely day. Thanks again.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Sandfossil
Needed to add info.

[FranzBernhard]

1 hour ago, Sandfossil said:

Oh I am soaking the cut pieces in a bowl of vinegar.

No, not soaking. Just a drop to see, if it fizzes. This would indicate calcium carbonate.

 

1 hour ago, Sandfossil said:

Have a lovely day.

Thanks, had a really lovely day, I was out fossil prospecting . There should be half a meter of snow now, but no snow, even the ground is only locally frozen. Best of all, found a new spot with a few Trochactaeon snails. Not many, but good to have that site for greater geology.

 

1 hour ago, Sandfossil said:

But for me I am such a hands on person. I need to see it and feel it, they even have some strange odors when cleaning them. Its a very sensory thing.

I like these various odors of rocks also very much. On cutting, they can also have very different smells. But you may know that .

 

1 hour ago, Sandfossil said:

But now I feel like a kid in a candy store ready to get my hand in the jar.

I have my hand in that jar for quite a long time already . You will never know what exactly is the next candy, but there is one. Like today .
Franz Bernhard

[Sandfossil]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:57 AM, FranzBernhard said:

No, not soaking. Just a drop to see, if it fizzes. This would indicate calcium carbonate

Too late. lol I dropped it in a bowl of vinegar and went to the grocery store. Didn't realize till later my friend sat it outside and it froze. We got a dusting of snow. So I let it thaw. No change really except cleaner. Some of the oil from the saw was pulled out.

 

 So this is my professional non-professional assessment. (wink wink) I believe it is sandstone styolite with limonite scars.  

 While doing research and looking at my other rock collection (I acquired but did not find) I noticed this one that I haven't cut. I only want to cut it if you think it might be worth doing. Hoping since I am studying about stroma's I can find one in the collection. Unfortunately nothing was tagged so its just all research to try to identify.

Hope you found lots of nice snails. Would love too see.

Thanks again.

Cyndi

This is outside light.

 This is inside light.

[FranzBernhard]

8 hours ago, Sandfossil said:

No change really except cleaner. Some of the oil from the saw was pulled out.

 

 So this is my professional non-professional assessment. (wink wink) I believe it is sandstone

I agree! Essentially sandstone with some other stuff.

 

8 hours ago, Sandfossil said:

I only want to cut it if you think it might be worth doing.

No need, its a nicely weathered sedimentary rock with calcite-rich layers, more sandy layers and limonitic layers. No fossils obvious.

 

8 hours ago, Sandfossil said:

Hope you found lots of nice snails. Would love too see.

I found a total of three, and took one with me. Its more about geology and finding extension of fossil layers at the moment. You may have a look at this topic:

Fossil snails of the genus Trochactaeon from Kainach near Voitsberg, Styria, Austria (Gosau-Group of Kainach, upper Cretaceous) - Summary of this years prospection - Fossil Hunting Trips - The Fossil Forum

 

Franz Bernhard