FF7_Yuffie Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Hello I am considering getting this set of Deinosuchus teeth. 37 teeth. They are from Chattahoochee River region, Bullock County, Alabama, USA. With the formation given as Ripley Now, looking online, it doesn't show Deinosuchus as being from there. But I do see teeth sold elsewhere as Deinosuchus from the Chattahoochee River. They were also apparently found in a dive along with David. R Scwimmer, who wrote a book on Deinosuchus. The largest is 27mm the smallest 10mm. If someone can take a look, that would be great. fossil_deinosuchus_crocodile_t_1594656235_74263265_progressive.jfif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Not saying that I have any experience with Deinosuchus-teeth - though these teeth are crocodilian at least - but there are a number of red flags going up for me about this offering: I thought Deinosuchus-teeth were rather rare and expensive, so being about to buy a box with 37(!!) teeth at once seems either suspicious or worth a fortune. As you found out the locality doesn't match the reported occurrence of Deinosuchus. It is, of course, possible that Deinosuchus from the Chattahoochee River region has been described elsewhere or has not officially been described while being recognized. But this seems a bit of a stretch. Anybody can come up with an exciting story about the teeth having been found with an author who wrote a book on Deinosuchus. Firstly, I don't know the author, but do know that there are authors out there who write beautifully about certain topics but have little to no fieldwork experience, making their identification of fossils dubious. Secondly, unless you have a statement from the author themselves accompanying and explicitly referring to these fossils, the seller's statement is as good as a COA - and we all know how much those are worth... To me these teeth look too worn to make out much, may be even too much so for an identification. I do believe there's some alligator teeth amongst them, but other than that, my opinion is that your should stay away from this one. But it may be better to ask more knowledgeable people on this subject, such as @Troodon, @jpc, @caterpillar or @Jesuslover340. 2 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 I've just realised, while looking into Deinosuchus teeth, that they are being sold by a long-standing member of this forum. They showed up in his collection thread. Small world. About rarity, now, are Deinosuchus teeth actually rare, or just claimed to be? Because I do see an awful lot of them for sale--a quick google search brings up no shortage of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 At least some of these are consistent with Deinosuchus. They aren’t all that rare in some lag deposits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, FF7_Yuffie said: About rarity, now, are Deinosuchus teeth actually rare, or just claimed to be? Because I do see an awful lot of them for sale--a quick google search brings up no shortage of them. 3 minutes ago, Al Dente said: At least some of these are consistent with Deinosuchus. They aren’t all that rare in some lag deposits. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. As with any other type of fossil, they may be rare in one place but show relative abundance in another. I can also completely imagine that since Deinosuchus is considered a mega-predator, their teeth are in demand, on the one hand creating an artificial scarcity, on the other motivating misidentification. For one thing I've discovered while browsing the forum for answers is that it's often not clear whether a specific tooth can be attributed to Deinosuchus or not. This may, in turn, lead to an over- (or under)representation in online sales figures... It could, of course, also very well be that the best Deinosuchus-samples are rare, whereas their more worn teeth are rather common. For ichthyosaurs, for example, Temnodontosaurus-teeth are quite rare, but platypterygiine teeth and those belonging to the genus Ichthyosaurus are less so. Even teeth belonging to Eurhinosaurus, considered rare in most localities, can make up half of the population in others... 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Al Dente said: At least some of these are consistent with Deinosuchus. They aren’t all that rare in some lag deposits. What characteristics are you looking for in identifying them? 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: What characteristics are you looking for in identifying them? The rugose sides and the resistant rings (don’t know what to call them) seen on the base. A couple teeth in the above photos have the rings. Here’s a photo of one of my teeth that shows one of the rings extending below the eroded base of the tooth. The rings give the appearance of a tooth inside a tooth. Edited January 31, 2022 by Al Dente 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 A 2020 paper by Cossette & Brochu rendered D. rugosus invalid and erected D. schwimmeir with material found in the lower Campanian of Alabama's Mooreville Formation. They also cited other occurrences only being in the Coffee Sand Formation of Mississippi. Other species of Deinosuchus are known from western and eastern States and Canada. The Ripley formation is upper Campanian to lower Maastrichtian so did Deinosuchus extend into the upper Campanian and what is the age of material where it was found Maastrichtian or Campanian? I see on wiki that says Deinosuchus was around 73m but do not know enough and the paper did not mention it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Thanks for taking a look everyone. Though Deinosuchus id isn't clear, they are quite reasonably priced so I am gonna consider getting them. Would be a nice display of teeth from a region I don't have any fossils from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas.Dodson Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Deinosuchus "rugosus" was originally reported by Schwimmer from the Blufftown Formation in Georgia's Chattahoochee river valley, and I've collected Deinosuchus myself from the valley. Despite the lack of occurrences in the new Deinosuchus paper I assumed these would now be D. Schwimmeri. 5 hours ago, Troodon said: The Ripley formation is upper Campanian to lower Maastrichtian so did Deinosuchus extend into the upper Campanian and what is the age of material where it was found Maastrichtian or Campanian? I see on wiki that says Deinosuchus was around 73m but do not know enough and the paper did not mention it. The typical(?) stratigraphic opinion is that the Blufftown is near upper Campanian age deposits so it's close at least. The figure below is from Case and Schwimmer's paper on the Blufftown fishes but should represent the same site as the Deinosuchus site. Interestingly, the upper Blufftown has in the past been believed to be part of the Ripley Formation and is difficult to distinguish from the Cusseta in some places. Wingard in 1993 suggested that the Blufftown includes late Campanian deposits as well based on the presence of certain Crassatella species. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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