Mystery Tooth found in the Peace River

[Thomas1982]

We found this on our first trip to the Peace River a week ago.  What do you guys think?  Camel?  deer? 

 

 

Thanks!

Tom

[Lone Hunter]

Will need to see chewing surface 

[Thomas1982]

16 minutes ago, Lone Hunter said:

Will need to see chewing surface 

Unfortunately the tooth is completely hollow!  I should have mentioned that in the post.

 

Tom

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Thomas1982 said:

Unfortunately the tooth is completely hollow!  I should have mentioned that in the post.

 

Tom

Tom,

I have hunted the Peace River for 15 years, and will be returning tomorrow.  Identifying this fragment is going to be very difficult.

You can help.

You have provided 2 views. The 1st 2 photos are the same view. 

It is possible that I'll be able to identify the tooth from any texture or crenulations on the enamel on the 2nd photo, but it is too dark.  Please retake photos of both sides in bright sunshine or with a halogen bulb.

The thickness of the enamel is a clue..  I have to figure out if this is a 10% fragment broken off a horse tooth or possibly 50 % of some sort of canine.. The center may be a hollow core...

 

Humor me.  I wish to see a photo taken down the red arrow, giving me another view of this rather intriguing tip...  press the tooth against the top of your stomack and get a good focus.   Thanks Jack

 

 

 

 

[Thomas1982]

45 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Tom,

I have hunted the Peace River for 15 years, and will be returning tomorrow.  Identifying this fragment is going to be very difficult.

You can help.

You have provided 2 views. The 1st 2 photos are the same view. 

It is possible that I'll be able to identify the tooth from any texture or crenulations on the enamel on the 2nd photo, but it is too dark.  Please retake photos of both sides in bright sunshine or with a halogen bulb.

The thickness of the enamel is a clue..  I have to figure out if this is a 10% fragment broken off a horse tooth or possibly 50 % of some sort of canine.. The center may be a hollow core...

 

Humor me.  I wish to see a photo taken down the red arrow, giving me another view of this rather intriguing tip...  press the tooth against the top of your stomack and get a good focus.   Thanks Jack

 

 

 

 

Thanks for answering my post! Here are some more pics that I hope help:

 

 

[Shellseeker]

Tom,

Thank you very much for the additional photos.  I am getting the idea that you will eventually get an ID,  and that is exciting. \

1st.. You should read this thread, which discusses the possibilities of an unerupted tooth. In many mammals , teeth are formed enamel 1st and then filled in with root material..  I am thinking that your tooth might be one of those...

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/118755-tiny-blue-llama-cap/

2nd , you have the option of sending this tooth to Richard Hulbert,  thru the University of Florida fossil Identification service.

Here is the link to do that...

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/fossil-id/

 

First , what is root end (1st 3 photos  ???) and chewing surface  (4th photo).  That is my current OPINION,,

I believe that your unerupted tooth is an Incisor, of a pretty large mammal, likely a Camel/Llama or Equus , a horse.  This is speculative,  because I have never found anything exactly like your tooth...

I strongly suggest that you send this tooth to Richard Hulbert (#2 above) .... it is that unusual....

 

Thanks for sharing..  Let me ask for others to comment:  @Harry Pristis @PrehistoricFlorida @digit

 

[Harry Pristis]

This appears to be an enamel shell of an unerupted, perhaps deciduous, selenodont tooth.  The end with the broken edge is the root end.  I don't know which animal produced it.

 

 

[digit]

Agreed. Looks vaguely camelid. Probably not enough to make any ID for certain. Still, a cool find!

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

3 hours ago, Thomas1982 said:

Thanks for answering my post! Here are some more pics that I hope help:

 

Tom, I do not think it is horse, rhino,  maybe llama (deer family), or cow, or bison  based on the length of over 40 mm.. In any case, I can not take you to a specific ID... just not good enough.. Richard Hulbert is ,  you need to try #2 above.

Quote

Selenodont Teeth

In ungulates such as horses, rhinoceros, deer, cattle, etc. the crown is broad and enamel is disposed of in vertical crescent-shaped columns separated by dentine. The softer dentine is worn down so that teeth provide sharp crescentic rasping ridges. Such cheek teeth are called selenodont.

 

[Thomas1982]

18 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

 

Tom, I do not think it is horse, rhino,  maybe llama (deer family), or cow, or bison  based on the length of over 40 mm.. In any case, I can not take you to a specific ID... just not good enough.. Richard Hulbert is ,  you need to try #2 above.

 

 

I contacted Mr. Hulbert, and he appears to have solved the mystery!  Here is his response:

 

"This was a tricky one, but I think I have solved the mystery. The key was the realization that this is a fragment from a much larger tooth. The tooth is hollow because it had not fully mineralized and at the time of the animal’s death was still inside the jawbone. The animal in this case is a bison and the tooth is either an upper premolar or molar."

 

Thanks for the lead!

 

Tom

 

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, Thomas1982 said:

 

I contacted Mr. Hulbert, and he appears to have solved the mystery!  Here is his response:

 

"This was a tricky one, but I think I have solved the mystery. The key was the realization that this is a fragment from a much larger tooth. The tooth is hollow because it had not fully mineralized and at the time of the animal’s death was still inside the jawbone. The animal in this case is a bison and the tooth is either an upper premolar or molar."

 

Thanks for the lead!

 

Tom

 

Tom,

What a great story you have about one of your early fossil finds.  Great photos, some early speculations and limit setting,  and then a very specific identification by one of the foremost Florida Fossil experts. Your tooth is most likely from Bison Antiquus... slightly larger than today's Bison. Congratulations...

[PrehistoricFlorida]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:36 PM, Shellseeker said:

Tom,

Thank you very much for the additional photos.  I am getting the idea that you will eventually get an ID,  and that is exciting. \

1st.. You should read this thread, which discusses the possibilities of an unerupted tooth. In many mammals , teeth are formed enamel 1st and then filled in with root material..  I am thinking that your tooth might be one of those...

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/118755-tiny-blue-llama-cap/

2nd , you have the option of sending this tooth to Richard Hulbert,  thru the University of Florida fossil Identification service.

Here is the link to do that...

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/fossil-id/

 

First , what is root end (1st 3 photos  ???) and chewing surface  (4th photo).  That is my current OPINION,,

I believe that your unerupted tooth is an Incisor, of a pretty large mammal, likely a Camel/Llama or Equus , a horse.  This is speculative,  because I have never found anything exactly like your tooth...

I strongly suggest that you send this tooth to Richard Hulbert (#2 above) .... it is that unusual....

 

Thanks for sharing..  Let me ask for others to comment:  @Harry Pristis @PrehistoricFlorida @digit

 

 

 

Partial bovid tooth. Because this was likely an isolated find and without additional testing further positive identification beyond bovid is impossible. However, it appears at least superficially pretty well mineralized which would point toward extinct Bison cf. antiquus or latifrons.