oinotnastones Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Hi guys I've known this piece for like 10 years and the owner finally sold it to me. The size is 10,5 cm and the only original tooth is the middle one... Need some help in the id to understand if it's crocodilian or spino indet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Looks composited to me. I'm no expert, but I have seen enough composited tooth/jaw combos here on this forum to think that there should be zero matrix between the tooth and the bone. I don't think the middle tooth is original either. The "sandy" glue around bears a striking resemblance to the tooth on its left in the second and third photos. However, like I said, this is not my field of expertise, so wait for others to chime in. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinotnastones Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 51 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said: Looks composited to me. I'm no expert, but I have seen enough composited tooth/jaw combos here on this forum to think that there should be zero matrix between the tooth and the bone. I don't think the middle tooth is original either. The "sandy" glue around bears a striking resemblance to the tooth on its left in the second and third photos. However, like I said, this is not my field of expertise, so wait for others to chime in. yes 2 teeth are definetly composited, the left one sand around it looks natural, but the jaw itself has been glued with sand on the same spot the big tooth is... why would they put a broken tooth in the middle but i see what u saying... despite that still dunno about the species, in the end i still love the piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I doubt this piece is big enough to ID. But if it is, your best bets would be @LordTrilobite and @Troodon... 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinotnastones Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: I doubt this piece is big enough to ID. But if it is, your best bets would be @LordTrilobite and @Troodon... Thanks ill wait for theiir opinion... lets see if we can get to a veredict Edited February 21, 2022 by oinotnastones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, oinotnastones said: Thanks ill for theiir opinion lets see if we can get to a veredict To be honest, though, I'd give this little chance of success. For while the teeth may be identifiable - they look spinosaurid to me - all three seem to have been fitted in the jaw (you can indeed tell from the sand, as @Mark Kmiecik indicated), completely removing any utility they may otherwise have had in helping identify the jaw. So the jaw would need to be identified based on anatomical features alone. And when it comes to that, I don't kdon'if there are enough clues. Certainly the raised alveolus is very peculiar, but I'm not sure that'll be enough... Anyway, the jaw doesn't particularly strike me as either crocodilian or spinosaurid, but I'm not well-enough versed with that material to make a proper evaluation. I will say, though, that neither the conservation of the jaw nor the type of sand around the teeth look very much like I'm used to seeing from the Kem Kem Group. But if it really is Kem Kem, @Haravex may also be able to help out... 2 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: I will say, though, that neither the conservation of the jaw I have seen this sort of greyish preservation before from Kem Kem. My own Spino vert has it. Edited February 21, 2022 by FF7_Yuffie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 8 hours ago, oinotnastones said: Hi guys I've known this piece for like 10 years and the owner finally sold it to me. The size is 10,5 cm and the only original tooth is the middle one... Need some help in the id to understand if it's crocodilian or spino indet. Definitely an Elosuchus snout tip fragment with two composited spinosaur teeth in it. The jaw piece itself isn't even bad. It's quite nice actually. But those spino teeth should be removed. Here's a scan I made of an Elosuchus snout fragment that's nearly the same part. 6 1 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Yep that high center boss not a characteristic you would find in a theropod as well as the outside texture of the jaw. I think LordTrilobite nailed it. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Troodon said: Yep that high center boss not a characteristic you would find in a theropod as well as the outside texture of the jaw. I think LordTrilobite nailed it. Yeah, crocodile was my first impression. But this boss in the middle confused me, as it seemed too pronounced for the sinusoidal shape of crocodile jaws I've seen. But I agree, I think Olof nailed it 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinotnastones Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 hours ago, LordTrilobite said: Definitely an Elosuchus snout tip fragment with two composited spinosaur teeth in it. The jaw piece itself isn't even bad. It's quite nice actually. But those spino teeth should be removed. Here's a scan I made of an Elosuchus snout fragment that's nearly the same part. Well thanks for puting my dreams away for spino, always tought that spino also had a lil snout like this, but nice information and excellent 3d, thanks for the info Olof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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