Plantguy Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Hey Gang, Here's another I could use some help with. I had it in the turtle/tortoise remains pile to be researched as it was found with some turtle remains but looking at it now I think it actually is mammal. Gonna guess maybe a scapula and I was wondering if it might be from something like a dolphin as I have a similar but much larger one? Looks like the larger flat fan shaped area has all been eroded/broken off. Plio/Pleistocene? Florida. Approximately 50mm X 50mm at its widest--tough to measure due to its odd shape/3dimensions. Any help in validating the bone type and/or the critter is much appreciated! Thanks! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Hi Plantguy, that strongly protruding hook, not sure if it is the acromion or coracoid process in this broken piece, would fit with cetacean nicely. mammal scapula it definitely is. Best regards, J 2 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Mahnmut said: Hi Plantguy, that strongly protruding hook, not sure if it is the acromion or coracoid process in this broken piece, would fit with cetacean nicely. mammal scapula it definitely is. Best regards, J Thanks! I saw the 2 extensions/hooks online in complete scapula photos when I poked around initially looking for critters . They seem to have alot of differing shapes/orientations. The one I have I couldnt align to match the photos so I was wondering if I was even looking at the correct bone. I wonder if those angles/its shape/even with the one missing would aid in a more specific identification. Maybe Bobby can tell @Boesse Thanks again for the confirmation! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 yes, definitely mammal scapula. Beyond that, I leave it to others. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Terrestrial mammal scapula, perhaps an ungulate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 @Boesse Thank you! Very interesting. That info takes me in a different direction to research which I like! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I live, I learn. Among the marine mammals cetacea did fit best in my eyes, but I did not think terrestrial. Courious to hear what else it may be. Best regards, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 When this first came up, I looked through my copy of Gilberts Mammalian Osteology and the scapula it seemed to look most similar to was a bear (I don't remember what kind of bear was shown and I don't have the book with me). But that book just covers recent mammals and I am not familiar with the Pleistocene options. Just a thought. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry c Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 some type of mammal scapula 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 Thanks all. I'm intrigued even more now. I'll keep looking around before checking with the UF folks... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Hi again, I think I can now confidently call that hook an acromion. To me it looks as if it was protruding over the socket, if that is really the case that excludes a lot of species and maybe hints towards carnivora, without being diagnostic (to me). https://russellboneatlas.wordpress.com/home/bone-specific-search/scapula/ Another great resource I can recommend is morphosource: https://www.morphosource.org/ Example of a bear scapula (similar, but not as strongly protruding as your bone): https://www.morphosource.org/concern/parent/000424148/media/000424175 Dog (much less protruding): https://www.morphosource.org/concern/parent/0000S5554/media/000025766 Morphosource can be browsed by cladistics, anatomy, and some other criteria. Not sure if Login is needed to view or only to download, but its free and worth it in my eyes. 3d Model views may need long to load. Best regards, J Edited March 18, 2022 by Mahnmut additonal info 1 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 16 hours ago, Mahnmut said: Hi again, I think I can now confidently call that hook an acromion. To me it looks as if it was protruding over the socket, if that is really the case that excludes a lot of species and maybe hints towards carnivora, without being diagnostic (to me). https://russellboneatlas.wordpress.com/home/bone-specific-search/scapula/ Another great resource I can recommend is morphosource: https://www.morphosource.org/ Example of a bear scapula (similar, but not as strongly protruding as your bone): https://www.morphosource.org/concern/parent/000424148/media/000424175 Dog (much less protruding): https://www.morphosource.org/concern/parent/0000S5554/media/000025766 Morphosource can be browsed by cladistics, anatomy, and some other criteria. Not sure if Login is needed to view or only to download, but its free and worth it in my eyes. 3d Model views may need long to load. Best regards, J I had forgotten completely about morphosource as I dont run across many bones that I need to compare things against. WOW another brain lapse. I can see similarity to the bear and dog and I was amazed at many of the other the fascinating scapulas! Right now I looked at/I'm wondering about something like beaver and/otter--they have similarities but I've run out of time to look thru more images for the evening. Florida had such a wide range of critters in the Plio-Pleistocene its amazing. Weekend is booked up already...I think the Tampa Fossil Club is having their show this weekend so I may have a chance to go over there and have some folks look at it possibly. Thanks again for the help! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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